Timothy Noah talks with readers about the coming climax of The Sopranos.

Timothy Noah talks with readers about the coming climax of The Sopranos.

Timothy Noah talks with readers about the coming climax of The Sopranos.

Real-time discussions with Slate writers.
June 7 2007 5:45 PM

Premeditating on The Sopranos

Timothy Noah talks with readers about the coming climax of HBO's mob drama.

Timothy Noah was online at Washingtonpost.com on Thursday, June 7, to look ahead to Sunday's final episode of The Sopranos and take a look back at the past season of HBO's beloved mob-themed hit. An unedited transcript of the chat follows.

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Timothy Noah: Greetings. I'm Timothy Noah, and I'm a participant in Slate's "TV Club" discussion of The Sopranos. The other participants couldn't be here today. They are Jeffrey Goldberg of The New Yorker and Brian Williams, anchor of the NBC evening news. I'll be glad to take your questions.

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Allentown, Pa.: Hi Tim. Everyone is interested in Tony's fate, but what do you predict will happen to Carmela, Meadow and A.J.? Although there is a mobster code of ethics regarding "blood family" ... hasn't the precedent been set in these past few weeks?

Timothy Noah: I've tried to avoid predictions and focus instead on responding to the series as it unfolds. When you're reading a novel, you don't pause to predict out loud what you think is going to happen—you press on with fascination to see how the author is going to end it, and to assess how well he or she pulls it off. That said: Who can resist a little prediction? I think bad things are going to happen to the Soprano family. It may be that Tony dies; it may be he goes to jail; it may be that A.J. goes off the deep end. No matter what unfolds, I think it's safe to say that Carmela never will recover fully from having to face the reality that their family life is based on violence and mayhem.

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Washington: I'm much less interested in the fate of Tony at this point than I am in the fates of Paulie and Phil. It seems to me that this series can end on one of several radically different messages depending on whether Phil's ruthlessness rewards him or leads to his downfall.

Timothy Noah: Yeah, the big question is whether Paulie acted in cahoots with Phil and deliberately botched the hit on Phil. We know from previous seasons that he's played footsie with Tony's New York rivals in the past. If Paulie betrayed Tony, then Pasquale "Patsy" Parisi—last seen running from the hit on Silvio Dante—was probably in on it, too. Which is significant because his son is dating Meadow. What a tangled web!

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Washington: Why do you think it took until the end of the final season for a majority of viewers to realize Tony Soprano is a psychopath and deserves whatever comes to him in the final episode?

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Timothy Noah: I don't think it took until the end of the final season. We've seen flashes of Tony's, er, antisocial behavior for eight seasons. But in this last season we've seen Tony stripped down to his essence. It's gotten harder and harder to look past the mobster to see the loving (if unfaithful) husband and concerned father. I think that's a logical note to end the show on.

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Winter Garden, Fla.: Do you think a feature-length film will ever be produced based on The Sopranos? Maybe chronicling the early years?

Timothy Noah: I hope not! The TV series is so beautifully realized. A movie, I think, would feel inadequate because it only would be two hours long, and we're used to having this story unfold in more leisurely, textured fashion. It's a testament to what TV can be at its very best (which it almost never is).

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Germantown, Md.: I think HBO might lose a lot of subscriptions! If Tony Soprano dies ... which I think he will ... will you leave it open-ended perhaps let A.J. live so he becomes the new boss way down the line sometime?

Timothy Noah: A.J. will never be the boss. Meadow, maybe, though as I pointed out in the TV Club, they've got a pretty low glass ceiling in the Mob. Women seldom progress past prostitute or pole dancer.

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Arlington, Va.: I was a big fan of The Sopranos for a few seasons, but then they took some very long breaks between seasons and I lost interest. Did they lose a lot of fans for this reason?

Timothy Noah: A lot of folks found last season tedious. I enjoyed it, though I should confess that I missed a few episodes. (Sopranos fundamentalists will say this makes me a fraud. I say it makes me a not-atypical television viewer.)

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Southwest Washington: Well, we all know Patsy wanted revenge on Tony for the murder of his brother Spoons, so I always thought Meadow dating Patrick was a little suspect.

Timothy Noah: You'd think a lovely and smart girl like Meadow would have better taste in men. First that wimp Finn, and now a capo's son.

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Washington: Why do writers and critics make such a big deal about a show only 5-10 million people have to pay to watch? There are bad summer reality shows that draw bigger audiences than The Sopranos. I'm sure the show is compelling to its audience, mostly because of the freedom with sex, nudity and language that writers can exploit by being on HBO, but to the hundreds of millions of people out there who don't watch, what's with all this fuss and attention? There have been far more significant television shows in history, some on network and non-pay cable right now, that don't get half the attention The Sopranos gets. Additionally there are far more shows that are better written and produced but are not marketed correctly or never find their audience, but the media continues to prop up a show that delights in playing with its audience with awkward scheduling, long hiatuses, bumping off popular characters and spewing hate-filled, dirty rhetoric.

Timothy Noah: I disagree. I think the show is beautifully written and acted, and I'm delighted that it found a profitable audience, however small compared to network hits. Is it the greatest-ever show on TV? I can't say, because I've missed a lot. Many people prefer "The Wire," but I assume you'd have the same objection to that program, which also appears on HBO. The nudity and language are intrinsic to the plot, and never strike me as gratuitous.

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Reading, Mass.: Will there be a Russian coming out of the woods?

Timothy Noah: I'm guessing not. Terry Winter, a writer for the show who twice has joined our TV Club discussion, says that life is full of loose strings, so why not The Sopranos?

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Laurel, Md.: Shame on David Chase for not giving us loyal diehard fans at least a 75-minute episode for the series finale. Or even a retrospect of the series the hour before!

Timothy Noah: Well, you can always buy it on DVD...

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Silver Spring, Md.: I've been enjoying the "Slate TV Club" immensely. That Williams guy—what a hoot! He's got a bright future for sure. Anyway, my much belated condolences on the loss of your wife, Marjorie, your first Sopranos-watching partner. How's it working out watching with your 14-year-old son? Do you ever find any of the scenes uncomfortable? A.J.'s suicide attempt? Obviously, the curb-stomping raised no eyebrows. Is he as insightful as his mom?

Timothy Noah: Will is no slouch in the observation department. He has made an excellent viewing companion. And yes, the more adult scenes have given us much to talk about, but so have the subtle ways that David Chase and Co. communicate the hypocrisy and self-delusion in the characters' lives.

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Richmond, Va.: Why do you think we continue to root for and have sympathy for these characters despite what they do and how they conduct themselves(although I will never forgive Tony for taking Christafu out)?

Timothy Noah: That's the genius of the show, that you can see humanity in the most immoral people. It's something we reporters have a chance to witness on a regular basis. Jeff Goldberg, my TV Club interlocutor, has drawn on his extensive experience covering the Mob and has some remarkable stories to tell.

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Bethesda, M.D.: I always find it funny how quickly the family gets over deaths. A.J. was surprised by Bobby's death but Christopher was only killed two weeks before and it's pretty much forgotten.

Timothy Noah: One legitimate criticism of the show is that it wildly overstates the frequency with which mobsters "whack" each other and outsiders. The truth is they probably spend more time talking to their lawyers. I'd have liked to see Tony's lawyer become a bigger character in the series.

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Arlington, Va.: I watched an interview with Peter Bogdanovich questioning David Chase on the Season 1 DVD extras, and I've heard that the ending is similar to the beginning. I can see that—Tony was in serious denial and very depressed. Now it's A.J.'s turn, but I don't think A.J. will stay depressed much longer—just as the hit on Tony forced a wake up, I think the same will happen to A.J. I just can't wait to see what finally jolts A.J. "back to life." Will it be another near-miss on his life? Or someone else? Or will the threat be enough? And will A.J. finally reconcile his feelings for his dad's business, or will he remain a tortured soul like his dad?

Timothy Noah: I think A.J. is beyond redemption. It's funny—even though he isn't a criminal, I think he's probably the character most people would like to see iced. Such a whiner!

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Hackensack, N.J.: Hi, Timothy. Any thoughts on why Melfi rejected Tony? It seems wildly out of character. She seemed more like a pissed-off goomar than a concerned therapist.

Timothy Noah: I think Jeff Goldberg had it right: It wasn't that she changed her mind about whether Tony could benefit in any legitimate way from psychotherapy, it was merely that her prurient interest in Mob life was exposed at a dinner party, and she felt humiliated.

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Columbus, Ohio: What is the significance of Tony alone in Junior's bedroom with the automatic rifle given to him by Bobby? Will Tony kill himself, or is he too narcissistic?

Timothy Noah: Too narcissistic, for sure.

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Re: Meadow: You'd think Meadow's hotness would at least score her better men. But I think it speaks largely to her inner self, as she probably is dating men she thinks she can control after growing up in a house watching her boomingly dominant father figure do whatever he wanted in controlling her mom.

Timothy Noah: That's plausible.

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Henrico, Va.: A lot of friends and family are taking Silvio's death (he might as well be dead) very hard. They think he's the coolest person on the show. What is up with that cardboard cut-out of Silvio in the safe house Tony and crew are in?

Timothy Noah: Good question. And why haven't they recruited Nils Lofgren to replace him?

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Falls Church, Va.: Have you watched the syndication on A&E yet? Is it as good, or really watered-down? Are body parts blurred out or edited out? Are curses beeped or dubbed over?

Timothy Noah: I don't know. But I once watched a cleaned-up version of "Glengarry Glen Ross" on TV and it was utterly preposterous. I suspect the same thing would be true here.

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St. Louis: Tim, one of my favorite aspects of The Sopranos has been David Chase's liberal use of misdirection and "red herrings," particularly in the final season. The FBI/terrorism, Paulie's flirtation with New York, Phil's temporary temptation to leave the game etc. Thus there are a number of mutually exclusive turns that could appear overdetermined in retrospect. I think that if there is any meta-message to The Sopranos, it is this: Predicting the future is pointless—there is no way to know—but we construct narratives that "explain" each turn as if it made sense. Any thoughts?

Timothy Noah: I think you're right. Life is unpredictable, so why not art?

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New York: Do you think another show of The Sopranos caliber ever will come along and challenge us and make us think like this again? I mean, a weak Sopranos episode is better than 99 percent of the stuff that's on TV today.

Timothy Noah: Yes, I do think TV will continue to deliver better and better programs—and also dumber and dumber ones. There's more of it now than ever before, hence the proliferation of both the good stuff and the garbage.

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Bowie, Md.: Three! More! Days! Most of the cast are strong actors. Do you think they will have trouble transitioning to other forms of entertainment (TV, movies, stage) or will they be typecast? (I'm sorry, I can only see Tony Sirico as Paulie—but at least Steve Van Zandt has a something to fall back on.)

Timothy Noah: James Gandolfini and Edie Falco already have enjoyed much success playing a number of roles that are very different from the roles they play on The Sopranos. But I'm not sure I'll ever be able to look at the actors who play Paulie or Adriana and think of anything but The Sopranos.

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Laurel, Md.: It's too bad that Tony never found out about Carmela's hookup with A.J.'s principal while she and Tony were separated.

Timothy Noah: Aw, let Carmela have her fun. Given Tony's philandering, she has it coming to her.

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Richmond, Va.: Even if Tony survives and gets rid of Phil, what is left of the Soprano family? Seems at this point, given the demise of Christopher, Bobby, Vito, Sil and others, they really would be just a "glorified crew."

Timothy Noah: Maybe they'll open a restaurant.

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Beacon, N.Y.: What would you say to Janice offing Tony in the finale? He did threaten to exile Bobby for expecting Tony to help with Uncle Junior's medical costs.

Timothy Noah: Not a strong enough motive.

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Baton Rouge, La.: The glass ceiling may be low for women in power positions in the mob, but you have to admit that the power of the mother and the compliance or noncompliance of women on The Sopranos is a strong and powerful undercurrent. Many of the decisions that the mothers/wives/daughters make has shaped the The Family and how it does business. I know there's been talk on Slate that Chase isn't much into sending messages, but I think the role of the mother on the show and how the mother shapes our ability to interact with society positively is certainly prevalent ... The Ultimate Power Position.

Timothy Noah: That's certainly true. Chase definitely communicates the enormous power that women wield in this world outside the Mafia hierarchy. Jeff and I had a playful discussion early on about whether it was even true that the traditional Italian family was patriarchal, given that both David Chase and Mario Puzo say they based their fictional dons on their mothers. See also "Italianamerican," Martin Scorsese's wonderful documentary that consists entirely of his mother and father talking in their Little Italy apartment. Dad can't get a word in edgewise.

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"That's the genius of the show. That you can see humanity in the most immoral people.": I've always seen it the opposite way: that even the most immoral people can live in denial. And how we all do that to an extent, act in such contrast to the high morals we claim. Today a lady with a fish on the back of her car cut me off and slammed on the breaks while flipping me off. WWJD?

Timothy Noah: That's certainly right, too. The self-deception of everyday life is a theme in the plays of Eugene O'Neill, the nonfiction of Joan Didion, and any number of other works. But it has particular piquancy when applied to people who murder for a living.

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Pittsburgh: Is Carmela really smart or really, really stupid? Will she ever be free of Tony and be her own woman? I'm sorry, but the spec house doesn't count. Tony fronted most of the money

Timothy Noah: She's smart and stupid at the same time—that's one of the things that make her a great character. She has no understanding or interest in cosmic questions, or in art. (Hence her outrage when she learns that A.J. was allowed to read Yeats' "The Second Coming" in college: "What kind of poem is that to teach to a college student?" she asked, as if the poem existed only to induce A.J. to commit suicide). Carmela has no sense of humor. She's more attentive to her kids' concerns than Tony most of the time, but she has less self-knowledge than Tony, which is really saying something. And it was laughably easy for Tony to con Carmela into thinking that Adriana simply left town.

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Washington: Tim, frankly I vastly preferred "Deadwood." Lots of psychopathy there, lots of over-the-top filthy language, but many of the characters were historical, or at least nominally based upon real people. Do you think there's ever been a study of how many genuine mob bosses ever went to a shrink? I mean, as they once alluded to in the series, the lifestyle of the Mezzogiorno was so mindlessly aggressive and macho that it's pretty near inconceivable that any of them would seek out a psychiatrist.

Timothy Noah: I wouldn't be so sure. Nowadays it's hard to find anyone who hasn't been to a shrink.

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Such a whiner!: I know, he even made Silvio's shooting about him. ("I was just getting over feeling depressed! How dare Silvio ruin my day! Wah!") He sure deserved that slap Tony gave him.

Timothy Noah: The narcissism is something he inherited directly from Tony, who even managed to feel aggrieved about having to murder Christopher.

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Bethesda, Md.: There are so many comparisons of the original "Godfather" to Shakespeare. Do you see this show in the same light, and as such, do you think it is possible that it will end like all Shakespearean tragedies in that everyone dies at the end?

Timothy Noah: That certainly would work. I'd say The Sopranos is more Shakespearean than "The Godfather" because it depicts a larger panorama of human variety. Also, even its darkest moments often are laced with humor. The dialog doesn't scan particularly well, though. Somebody should teach David Chase a thing or two about meter!

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Frederick, Md.: I am (and I hate to use the word) so obsessed with The Sopranos that before every season starts I have anxiety dreams about missing the first minutes of the show. I won't answer my phone, and on Sunday I, like A.J., will fall into a deep depression knowing my favorite show of all time will be no more. Thank you Sopranos and HBO for the memories. But hey ... whadayagonnado?

Timothy Noah: Dr. Melfi has an opening in her schedule. Maybe you should give her a call.

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Arlington, Va.: I've really enjoyed the TV club—can you think of any other TV show that would elicit such great discussion? I'm curious about how you'll watch the last show—any rituals, etc.? For me it will be with great sadness—this last stretch has been so particularly amazing I can't help but lament it is ending and I don't get to see more!

Timothy Noah: Thanks. Whatever rituals accompany my watching of the final show will be entirely circumstantial. I'll be in the Catskills, on a Slate retreat, so we'll probably recreate the stateroom scene from "A Night at the Opera" in my hotel room. (I'll have the only TV!) Sounds like fun, though I'll miss not getting to watch the denouement with my son Will. Jeff Goldberg will be in Israel. Brian Williams will be wherever Brian Williams is when he's not on your TV screen.

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Tenafly, N.J.: What's with the white shoes motif!?

Timothy Noah: Wiseguys like white shoes. I have no idea why. You'd think they'd be hard to keep clean, because, you know, all that blood.

In the most recent TV Club entry, Brian Williams asks: "What's the deal with the red side of the electric shoe buffer? I get the black side, everybody does. But when I saw Sil (in one of his last acts while standing) using the red side on his white vinyl kicks, it got me thinking."

Maybe it has something to do with those inconvenient smears of blood...

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Evanston, Ill.: I wonder if you could say a few things about the production values of The Sopranos, as compared with other television series, present or past. I felt, for instance, that the editing of Bobby's death sequence—the cross-cutting between the model trains and the shooting itself—surpassed anything I've seen on TV, approaching the level of De Palma or Hitchcock. How big of a factor is the budget in making possible the artistry that goes into a sequence like this?

Timothy Noah: No idea. I don't bring knowledge to this enterprise, only appreciation.

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Timothy Noah: Well, I guess that's a wrap. Thanks for coming by, and check out Slate's TV Club after the final episode. Mostly, I expect, we'll be trying to figure out what to do with our Sunday evenings. Read a book, maybe.