Rachel Maddow loves a good argument. As long as it’s over substance, something she says is in short supply as the 2012 presidential campaign kicks into gear. 

The MSNBC host and political commentator recently sat down with Slate’s Jacob Weisberg for a freewheeling interview about everything from her romantic notions about government policy to her take on Roger Ailes and Fox News to her upcoming book about the evolution of American defense strategy.

Here’s part 2 of the interview:

Here's part 3 of the interview:

Here's part 4 of the interview:

Look for an audio podcast of the entire conversation in the coming days.