From: Alan Brinkley
To: Michael McConnellPosted Friday, Dec. 1, 2000, at 11:30 PM ET Dear Michael,
I am much less qualified than you are to predict what the Supreme Court will do, but I too suspect that the court will rule relatively narrowly and in a way that will not—as so many people hope—resolve this imbroglio. Unlike you, I am—in my own untutored way—relatively sympathetic to the Florida Supreme Court's ruling. It does seem to me from my admittedly partial reading of the Florida statute that there are contradictory provisions in it and that the court was acting reasonably, although certainly aggressively and controversially, in deciding that one provision (the authorization of hand recounts) trumped another provision (a deadline). I am not willing to predict which way the U.S. Supreme Court will rule, but either way they will not end this impasse. Probably.
The more intriguing question to me is why the Supreme Court agreed to hear this case at all. Was it really a deep philosophical interest in the question of the relative power of the legislature and the courts in Florida? Was it a sense of obligation to clarify legal issues in the midst of a major national dilemma? Was there, is there, consensus on the court about the propriety of intervening and on the proper nature of that intervention? No one expected the court to intervene in this case, something for which, as far as I know, there is no precedent at all. Given that we know nothing about the court's motives for taking this unusual step, it is at least conceivable that we underestimate their intentions. Might they in fact be planning to do what William Safire has been urging them to do for works, and what many Americans apparently want them to do: take control of the mechanics of this controversy and somehow settle it? I suspect not, but at this point almost nothing would surprise me.
The two scenarios you envision—the court ruling for Gore and confirming the status quo of the moment, or the court ruling for Bush and confirming the status quo as of November 14—would change little and settle nothing. But the issue that was in part the source of this battle—the difference between the pre-certification phase and the contest phase of the election—seems now a more important one than might have been predicted. As Mike Kinsley pointed out here a few days ago, the heart of the argument in favor of imposing the deadline was to ensure that there would be time for a contest. That was also the Florida Supreme Court's rationale for setting its own tight deadline. But as soon as the vote was certified, the public (if not necessarily the legal) character of this struggle rapidly changed. Republicans argued that the contest, which they had gone to court to protect, was somehow illegitimate and even unpatriotic, and the Democrats have not been able to shake the image of futility and gracelessness that the Republican argument created. Certification also makes it much easier for the Florida Legislature to intervene to select electors regardless of what the courts decide. So, the real resolution of this dispute may lie not in what the Supreme Court rules this week but in the narrowness of the ruling of the Florida Supreme Court two weeks ago. If they had really been intent on allowing a thorough recount actually to matter, they would have had to have imposed a much later deadline, and they would have had to intervene more aggressively to ensure that the recounts actually took place (and perhaps also to impose standards on them). They would, in other words, have had to take over the election—something their critics charged them with doing at the time but which it now seems clear they came nowhere close to doing. And that's what the Supreme Court will have to do if it is intent on resolving this battle. I very much doubt it will.
From: Alan Brinkley
To: Michael McConnellPosted Friday, Dec. 1, 2000, at 11:30 PM ET Alan Brinkley is Allan Nevins Professor of History at Columbia University and the author most recently of Liberalism and its Discontents
(click here to buy it). Michael McConnell is the Presidential Professor of law at the University of Utah. This week, Slate has asked them to keep a running commentary on the presidential endgame. Reader Comments from The Fray:
Michael McConnell argues that even a state-wide hand count might give Gore an unfair advantage, because the questionable punch card ballots were used predominantly in counties that heavily supported Gore. But his logic is flawed; he forgets that the argument for a hand recount--widespread undervoting that a human eye might correct--has already taken this very discrepancy into account. Though the hand recount would most likely discover a larger number of new votes for Gore than Bush because of the problems with punch cards, the inverse is true for the current machine count: Bush has been unfairly over-represented by his support in counties with more technologically advanced voting systems. It is not necessarily improper to concentrate energy on hand recounts in punch card counties, since they are the ones in which problems with unread votes are more likely. While I can't think of any serious argument against a state-wide hand count (except for the question about hand count subjectivity which might be dealt with by simple guidelines), the problem now is simply that the Republicans have argued for too long against hand counting at all, and are thus unable to concede this clear, proper compromise.
--Jared White
(To reply, click here.)
I believe that the hand recount is conducted, ballot by ballot, with a representative of both political parties, both of whom must agree on the party for whom each vote was cast. Any ballot that the two person team does not agree on is then reviewed by a three member panel of non-partisans. My point is simply that the recount is not a subjective as one might think. Since one of the candidates campaigned on the slogan that he "trusts the people" and the other has indicated a willingness to trust the people on this issue, I am surprised there is a problem.
--Carrie McLain
(To reply, click here.)
A way out: the Burr-Hamilton solution.
--APM
(To reply, click here.)
(11/15)
Reader Comments from The Fray:
I find it amusing that the Democrats are telling President-elect Bush that the only way he can succeed is to adopt their agenda.
The popular vote, as close as it was, could have swung Bush's way if it was recounted as Florida was. If California and all the voter irregularity in the excessively liberal and populous states were taken out of the picture, the popular vote across the nation was significantly more for Bush. It presents a more accurate picture of America as a whole to view the popular vote minus California. That's the reason for the Electoral College.
Democrats should be looking and asking themselves why they blew this election rather than deluding themselves that it was stolen. Look within. The liberal lies and scare-mongering, and class warfare language and willingness to depart from the law in order to win at any costs is not going to serve America or the Democratic party well. When America has more time to reflect on the days since the election, the Democrats will not fare so well. That is why the Democrats are trying still to deflect attention from their failures.
Vice-President Gore gave a noble speech last night. For the first time in this election process I gained respect for him. He was finally speaking honestly. Liberals should try honesty instead of distortion and manipulation more often.
--Mark Sherman
(To reply, click here.)
Sorry, but I don't see true bipartisanship happening. The division you see has been growing for decades. It isn't between skinheads or klansmen and 'good honest Americans,' it is between those who are willing to be responsible for themselves, and those who've been inculcated with the idea that they have a god-given right to the fruits of someone else's labor. The Dems have done the indoctrinating, and those of us who flocked to the personal freedom stances of 60's Democratic candidates are appalled at how the current flock of Democrat candidates have taken full advantage of the 'buy a vote with welfare' techniques they've developed over the years. I have predicted class warfare by 2010 since 1975. I may be off a couple years, but dramatic changes are in order
--Dennis Jacques
(To reply, click here.)
Â
Reader Comments from The Fray:
I disagree that what the Supreme Court faces is less compelling than Dred Scott. It's time to get past all this rhetoric and look at what we, as citizens, are being dealt. First of all, forget all the pious cant about the wisdom of the founding fathers. The Constitution was never a document that guaranteed democracy in this country, since the founding fathers' didn't want democracy. They didn't want people to be able to vote for the president, that was the job for politicians. Jefferson himself wrote "the people is an ass." While they may have been against British rule, they were in no shape or form democrats in light of the term today. And the Republicans are not such great believers in democracy today. If they were, they would have worked to get an accurate count in Florida. The Supremes are either going to yank us into the present, for those "asses" like myself, of haul us back into the past. That is the Constitutional issue at stake.
--George Grella
(To reply, click here.)
As we await the Supreme Court's decision, I stand astonished. Not that the Supreme Court delved into the 'miasma' of this election dispute--it is not such a bad idea for the last word of the land to have the last word; what astonished me was Scalia's stated reason for the stay granted. The stay itself was not such a bad idea (I voted for Gore, by the way). The decision needed to be made before there were facts on the ground so that no one felt any more robbed than they already do. However, Scalia's unprecedented indication that he has already made up his mind before even receiving a brief must have ruffled some of his colleague's feathers and perhaps created an environment that may well send the 'swing justices'--Kennedy and O'Connor--into the arms of the solid opposition. Scalia's statement may well turn out to be a self-fulfilling anti-prophecy.
It would be most astonishing if any decision were 5 to 4. I think it is more likely that there will be a more solid majority behind some sort of solomonic solution. One hopes that the court will be very, very cautious not to create law itself.
--Rabbi Jason
(To reply, click here.)
In our world of constant disorder, why is it so surprising that the old technology-based society is colliding with the new tech order? We are transforming our entire society to the new tech order. Many systems have not made the transition. Voting processes and systems are at the top of the list right now. This collision must take place and the new tech order take its proper place in this function of our society. Laws must change to support the new order. For now, the courts must decide the outcome based on our current technology and laws. We must invest the next four years and make our voting systems capable of supporting our transforming society, and build new law in this process.
--Steve R
(To reply, click here.)
(12/11)
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Reader Comments from The Fray:
Michael McConnell argues that even a state-wide hand count might give Gore an unfair advantage, because the questionable punch card ballots were used predominantly in counties that heavily supported Gore. But his logic is flawed; he forgets that the argument for a hand recount--widespread undervoting that a human eye might correct--has already taken this very discrepancy into account. Though the hand recount would most likely discover a larger number of new votes for Gore than Bush because of the problems with punch cards, the inverse is true for the current machine count: Bush has been unfairly over-represented by his support in counties with more technologically advanced voting systems. It is not necessarily improper to concentrate energy on hand recounts in punch card counties, since they are the ones in which problems with unread votes are more likely. While I can't think of any serious argument against a state-wide hand count (except for the question about hand count subjectivity which might be dealt with by simple guidelines), the problem now is simply that the Republicans have argued for too long against hand counting at all, and are thus unable to concede this clear, proper compromise.
--Jared White
(To reply, click here.)
I believe that the hand recount is conducted, ballot by ballot, with a representative of both political parties, both of whom must agree on the party for whom each vote was cast. Any ballot that the two person team does not agree on is then reviewed by a three member panel of non-partisans. My point is simply that the recount is not a subjective as one might think. Since one of the candidates campaigned on the slogan that he "trusts the people" and the other has indicated a willingness to trust the people on this issue, I am surprised there is a problem.
--Carrie McLain
(To reply, click here.)
A way out: the Burr-Hamilton solution.
--APM
(To reply, click here.)
(11/15)
Reader Comments from The Fray:
I find it amusing that the Democrats are telling President-elect Bush that the only way he can succeed is to adopt their agenda.
The popular vote, as close as it was, could have swung Bush's way if it was recounted as Florida was. If California and all the voter irregularity in the excessively liberal and populous states were taken out of the picture, the popular vote across the nation was significantly more for Bush. It presents a more accurate picture of America as a whole to view the popular vote minus California. That's the reason for the Electoral College.
Democrats should be looking and asking themselves why they blew this election rather than deluding themselves that it was stolen. Look within. The liberal lies and scare-mongering, and class warfare language and willingness to depart from the law in order to win at any costs is not going to serve America or the Democratic party well. When America has more time to reflect on the days since the election, the Democrats will not fare so well. That is why the Democrats are trying still to deflect attention from their failures.
Vice-President Gore gave a noble speech last night. For the first time in this election process I gained respect for him. He was finally speaking honestly. Liberals should try honesty instead of distortion and manipulation more often.
--Mark Sherman
(To reply, click here.)
Sorry, but I don't see true bipartisanship happening. The division you see has been growing for decades. It isn't between skinheads or klansmen and 'good honest Americans,' it is between those who are willing to be responsible for themselves, and those who've been inculcated with the idea that they have a god-given right to the fruits of someone else's labor. The Dems have done the indoctrinating, and those of us who flocked to the personal freedom stances of 60's Democratic candidates are appalled at how the current flock of Democrat candidates have taken full advantage of the 'buy a vote with welfare' techniques they've developed over the years. I have predicted class warfare by 2010 since 1975. I may be off a couple years, but dramatic changes are in order
--Dennis Jacques
(To reply, click here.)
Â
Reader Comments from The Fray:
I disagree that what the Supreme Court faces is less compelling than Dred Scott. It's time to get past all this rhetoric and look at what we, as citizens, are being dealt. First of all, forget all the pious cant about the wisdom of the founding fathers. The Constitution was never a document that guaranteed democracy in this country, since the founding fathers' didn't want democracy. They didn't want people to be able to vote for the president, that was the job for politicians. Jefferson himself wrote "the people is an ass." While they may have been against British rule, they were in no shape or form democrats in light of the term today. And the Republicans are not such great believers in democracy today. If they were, they would have worked to get an accurate count in Florida. The Supremes are either going to yank us into the present, for those "asses" like myself, of haul us back into the past. That is the Constitutional issue at stake.
--George Grella
(To reply, click here.)
As we await the Supreme Court's decision, I stand astonished. Not that the Supreme Court delved into the 'miasma' of this election dispute--it is not such a bad idea for the last word of the land to have the last word; what astonished me was Scalia's stated reason for the stay granted. The stay itself was not such a bad idea (I voted for Gore, by the way). The decision needed to be made before there were facts on the ground so that no one felt any more robbed than they already do. However, Scalia's unprecedented indication that he has already made up his mind before even receiving a brief must have ruffled some of his colleague's feathers and perhaps created an environment that may well send the 'swing justices'--Kennedy and O'Connor--into the arms of the solid opposition. Scalia's statement may well turn out to be a self-fulfilling anti-prophecy.
It would be most astonishing if any decision were 5 to 4. I think it is more likely that there will be a more solid majority behind some sort of solomonic solution. One hopes that the court will be very, very cautious not to create law itself.
--Rabbi Jason
(To reply, click here.)
In our world of constant disorder, why is it so surprising that the old technology-based society is colliding with the new tech order? We are transforming our entire society to the new tech order. Many systems have not made the transition. Voting processes and systems are at the top of the list right now. This collision must take place and the new tech order take its proper place in this function of our society. Laws must change to support the new order. For now, the courts must decide the outcome based on our current technology and laws. We must invest the next four years and make our voting systems capable of supporting our transforming society, and build new law in this process.
--Steve R
(To reply, click here.)
(12/11)