
What Women WantEmily Bazelon and Melinda Henneberger discuss Slate's XX Factor and the female perspective on politics.
Posted Thursday, Nov. 15, 2007, at 1:57 PM ETSlate "XX Factor" bloggers Emily Bazelon and Melinda Henneberger were online at Washingtonpost.com on Thursday, Nov. 15, to take readers' questions about women and politics. An unedited transcript of the chat follows.
Emily Bazelon: Hi Everyone,
Melinda and I are here and looking forward to your questions.
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Melinda Henneberger: Hi, I'm Melinda Henneberger, in the room and ready to be called on. I see that John McCain is actually trying to capitalize on his ho-ho-ho response to the Hillary-hating woman who asked him, "How do we beat the bitch?'' Which IS good for business—if you're Hillary, that is. I guess he figures that red meat to the base is his only shot, and that you can never underestimate the American voter.
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Worcester, Mass.: Hi Emily and Melinda! I love the "XX Factor" blog. Emily, my question is about your breastfeeding article. (I'll claim new mommy brain if you talked about this in the article and I forgot). In addition to education and class as factors why some women breastfeed and some don't, would you say there's also an experience/generation gap? I'm 39, and just had my baby a year ago. No older woman in my family—mother, aunt, stepmother, mother-in-law—nursed, and so had no experience or meaningful support to offer when my baby had trouble latching in her first days. Both my mother and MIL said that their babies did just fine with formula, look how well we turned out, that there was no shame in formula, etc. I know they were trying to make it okay for me if I ended up not being able to nurse, but their remarks really hit me the wrong way, as if they were trying to convince me not to nurse. My husband was supportive of nursing, we got help from a lactation consultant, and all was well in time. But for women who are close with their mothers who never nursed, might this also play a substantial role for today's new moms when making decisions about nursing in those crazy days after birth?
Emily Bazelon: Thanks, that's great that you're enjoying "XX Factor." Yes, I think you're right about age. In the CDC stats, this usually comes up in terms of younger women, because mothers under the age of 20 are less likely to breastfeed. But you're talking about a different phenomenon: being a mother who'se own mother (and mother in law) were of a generation that was much less likely to nurse. That's certainly true: When my mother decided to breastfeed, in 1971, she hardly knew anyone else who was doing it, and the statistics bear out that impression. So yes, what you're experiencing has a more general truth. And I think that these questions about what mothers pass on to their daughters, about breastfeeding v. formula, must be a significant reason that rates of nursing remain lower among certain groups, like African Americans (though that rate is rising).
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Femanon: I resent the fact that as a woman, I'm encouraged to vote for Hillary simply because SHE's a woman...as if I don't have a brain and can't evaluate the candidates based on merit. Isn't this reverse discrimination and sexism? No offense, but I don't care about the historical aspect—electing a woman to the presidency is the last thing on my mind. I'm in my late 40s and have seen successful women all around me—I don't need to elect a woman president to make me feel better, like "we've arrived." People, this election is SERIOUS!!
Melinda Henneberger: I have heard a lot of women say that same thing—and your feeling also lines up with polling that suggests that gender-based campaign appeals tend to backfire, especially with women under 40, who don't want to be guilted into voting for the woman in the race.
The strong feeling I got talking to women across the country for my book, "If They Only Listened to Us: What Women Voters Want Politicians to Hear,' is that we're more than ready for a woman in the White House, but that does not mean that any woman in the race automatically has our vote, any more than African-Americans take one look at Barack Obama and assume he's their guy. It's a plus, but it's not a given.
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Dupont Circle: Is this particular chat supposed to be about breastfeeding, or politics?
Emily Bazelon: politics, really, but hey, breastfeeding can have its moment.
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Harrisburg, Pa.: I often hear commentators and bystanders looking at the candidates, especially during the debates, and concluding that Hillary Clinton came across as more presidential, whereas the others came across as candidates. I wonder if acting this way deflects from the issue of her being a woman and, if so, if you think she is successfully doing so, and, if so, is this the right move for her?
Emily Bazelon: Yes, I think Hillary's "presidential" qualities are helping her, and that they do take something away from the sense that a woman just can't be president. What makes a candidate presidential? In Hillary's case, it's a combination of experience and gravitas and substance and discipline and polish, I think. You may not agree with her, and she hasn't been on her best game in the last week or two, but she generally sounds just more ready for prime time than the others. She's the one, after all, who has already been in the White House.
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Washington, D.C.: So, does Sen. Clinton need to be a flight attendant?
Emily Bazelon: No! I mean, yikes, I hope not. This is where gender roles just have to go, right? We have to be able to evaluate Hillary's candidacy in the same way we would if she were male, in the sense of assessing her relevant experience. That's not to say that her persona isn't tied to her gender, because of course it is. But in thinking about what candidates have actually done in the world, enough already. No soft and fuzzy credentials.
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Boston: Will the electorate distill down all the personality quirks and political polish to pick someone at the end of the day they are confident has the ability to make the right decision on critical issues instead of relying reflexively on ideology? Can we afford not to for another four years?
Melinda Henneberger: One thing I've been surprised by is how little we vote on ideology, and how much depends on what you describe as the quirks and the political polish. I can't tell you the number of voters who've told me their number-one issue was the environment or health care or education—and then went on to explain why they voted against the candidate who agreed with them on their own top issue. Huh? Yes, like the president we ended up with, we are inclined to go with our gut, to value instinct over information.
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Remarks from the Fray:
As some astute Frayster has already pointed out (I believe in response to the XX Factor), it's not entirely fair to say that people's dislike of Hillary has nothing to do with gender, because the qualitities they tend to point to as evidence of her poor character or unlikable personality are often completely excused in men. Sure, Hillary is a calculating, triangulating politician who tends to say what the voters want to hear and gloss over unpleasant truths. Sure, she puts a lot of effort into crafting a particular public image that is probably not a perfect representation of who she "really" is. But are these really reasons not to vote for her, when they are qualities she shares with most successful politicians, including her husband?
For whatever reason, people see these qualities as less acceptable in women, and that's where the sexism comes in. If you really don't want that kind of a politician to be president, that's fine, laudable even, but don't vote for some man who shares Hillary's slipperiness, lack of candor, tendency to pander, etc., and pretend he's somehow less of a "bitch" just because he's a man.
--melisma
(To reply, click here.)
The right wing rage of the "scary lady" is not gender based, it is right wing raged based. I have seen equal red faced right wing rage about Teddy Kennedy (liberal!), illegal immigrants (illegal!), Sean Penn (bad actor!), faceless bureaucrats (socialists!), Michael Moore (fat!), and lazy union workers (lazy!).
Same rage; different target. It's the rage du jour.
The right wing rage is bigoted when bigotry serves, misogynist when misogyny serves, racist when racism serves, fundamentalist when...
Accusing a raging right wing WOMAN as having gender rage, is well, interesting. Isn't it?
--Sarvis
(To reply, click here.)
(11/18)