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Dressed DownEmily Yoffe talks with readers about trampy 'tween styles and modest back-to-school alternatives.


Posted Thursday, Aug. 30, 2007, at 7:21 PM ET

Slate writer Emily Yoffe was online Thursday, Aug. 30, to take readers' questions about inappropriate back-to-school clothes for 'tweens. An unedited transcript of the chat follows.

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Emily Yoffe: I'll say!

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Martin, Tenn.: How can you convince a 13-year-old that ultra-low-rise and low-rise jeans look trashy when they are literally the only jeans in the juniors department at every single store you go in? She knows that her rear shows when she bends over "just like all the girls" so she picks long shirts "just like all the girls," but it's so the norm we can't find anything else. It's ridiculous. The only place mid-rise jeans can be found is in the "old ladies' department."

Emily Yoffe: This is what makes finding decent clothing so hard—you have to really search for it and it's not what the other girls are wearing. I heard from one grandmother who said she remembered shopping for her daughter's clothes for back to school in a single afternoon at the local department store. Now taking her granddaughter shopping is a multi-day event across many stores.

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Americus, Ga.: Schools in Americus, Ga. and Sumter County have gone to school uniforms this year.

Emily Yoffe: I can see the appeal of the school uniforms. Although it would be just as good if it was expected that kids simply looked like they were dressed appropriately for school. Oh, I have become such an old fogey!

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Kansas City, Mo.: As a middle school assistant principal, agree 110 percent with this article—I can't believe what some parents will let their children come to school in. Some look like street walkers—it's no wonder some of our boys have so much trouble concentrating!

Emily Yoffe: So do school administrators send kids home? Do they send out notices saying what's appropriate? And you raise a good point about the boys. Don't parents realize the damage they're doing to both sexes by letting their little girls run around like streetwalkers?

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Hartford, Wis.: Your views on clothing brands such as "baby phat," and your daughter's for that matter, are completely out of whack. I don't see any way possible for her to look at that shirt and say "disgusting." Oh my God, i think your style has no sense at all. You're far too protective, and psychotic, about clothing choices for your daughter, and obviously it's starting to rub off on her. We don't need any more of you crazy mothers running around in the world. Please blog about something more relevent to today's culture.

Emily Yoffe: People have asked who are the mothers who let their children wear provocative clothes and what are they thinking. This is what they're thinking.

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Takoma Park, Md.: Emily—I love your columns. You're a hoot. Alas, I thought the era of prosti-tots would end quickly. How do these kids make it past dress code at school? Please tell me they still have dress codes!

Emily Yoffe: Thanks. I know my daughter's school does have a dress code—the shorts or shirts have to be as long as the arms, and no skimpy tops.

I was told by a friend whose kids go to a celebrity-filled private school in LA that the administration sent out a letter asking the mothers to come to school events dressed more appropriately!

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Anonymous: Limited Too is part of 'tween Brands, Inc., which recently launched a new "concept" store called " Justice" (cutesy play on "just us") that is way more toned-down in the sex department. My 12-year-old loves the clothes and she is very self-conscious, not vampy/trampy and is way stylin' in their stuff. They are going into suburban "strip malls" so as not to compete with their main mall-counterpart, Limited Too. Only 400 or so in the U.S. at the moment, but big plans for more. Of course, here in Colorado we are a suburban strip mall so there are four already within 30 minutes of my house. Clothes are very reasonably priced, for the most part (below $20 for most items). My 15-year-old would wear their stuff if she wasn't so bloody brand-conscious. ... Bad side of the store is that it sells make-up parties, accessories-ad-nauseum and candy in the store. Loved the Harriet Miers line! Funny kid!

Emily Yoffe: A couple of people have mentioned the Justice line as being more decent looking. I'll have to check it out. As far as make up and candy—that's when you just have to repeat, "No, you're not getting that."

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Worcester, N.Y.: Oh my god, I think you and I hit all the same stores ... fortunately, my 11-year-old is pretty modest. She won't even buy those sweat pants with the sayings across the butt ... we managed to find one pair at Penney's that only had something down the leg in the front. Actually, we got pretty lucky at Penney's of all places ... normal jeans, normal shirts ... we even found skirts that came down to the top of her knees (her preferred length)...

She does like a few sparkly items on her shirts, but not too much, and Penney's seemed to have just the right mix. Funniest thing, she liked a dress at Old Navy that turned out to be an official "school uniform." I guess I have a future Supreme court Justice type on my hands ... actually she's a NASA wannabe—talk about frumpy, they wear "jumpsuits" for god's sake. But, hey I'm not complaining ... she's modest and I love that about her. Loved your article, I thought I was the only mother who was appalled at what was out there. Take care.

Emily Yoffe: Thank you. Yes, if you don't want your daughter to wear "Juicy" et. al. it really helps if you don't have to go through dressing room melt-downs when you say no. Bravo for modest girls.

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Selah, Wash.: u r such a deiscarise [ed: disgrace?] to girls maybe some girls like push up bras and want to grow up faster so y dont u get a life

Emily Yoffe: Another mother who buys this stuff for her daughter.

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Fairfax, Va.: Thanks for writing your sensible article! I really hate the trashy clothes sold to and (sadly) worn by young girls. The sexy underwear for little girls is especially appalling. I can't figure out why their mothers allow these choices. Like your daughter, my own child (age 19) wants to dress decently but not like Harriet Miers or a burqa-clad Muslim. She is a modest person who dislikes tight fitting or otherwise revealing clothing. She likes stores which cater to athletes (REI and Title Nine, for example) because they respect women. Their casual clothing is stylish without being sexually provocative.

Emily Yoffe: That's a good tip. But I have some questions from young women wondering where to buy decent, but stylish office wear. Anybody have any suggestions?

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San Diego: School shopping with my 15-year-old at the mall, we went into Forever 21, and they were blasting a song with the repeated lyrics "gotta get in those pants" and had T-shirts for sale with slogans like "Got Beer?" ... we left.

Emily Yoffe: I have gone into stores that we just run from. Maybe it's worth it to talk to the manager and tell them why you won't spend your money there...but probably not. "Got Beer" for a kid, amazing!

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Remarks from the Fray:

Although I enjoy your Dear Prudence column, I feel as though you have been unfair in this thread by not posting messages from parents who have a different view point from your own unless they were poorly written. Shame on you for putting up straw men.

Also, I would like to put in my two cents on the thong debate. I began wearing thongs when I was about 13, primarily b/c I was embarrassed by VPL (visible panty lines). (In my opinion, VPL can be just as trashy and sexually suggestive as a lacy thong.) There are thongs on the market that are, believe it or not, pretty demure. In fact, the Pink line from Victoria's Secret, which you so snarkily maligned in your article, offers some cute thongs and other types of underwear that are age-appropriate for young teens. Also, as I am now in my mid-twenties, I can attest to the fact that wearing thongs in one's early teens does not mean that one is going to be sexually promiscuous.

Finally, I work in the retail industry and I can tell you that trapeze style shirts (which are cut to be fitted but not tight in the shoulders and loose in the torso area) are all over the market. I've seen these tops at H&M, Old Navy, Steve and Barry's and other stores. The overall trend in the women's and young women's market right now is towards large, blousy shapes. It may sound odd, but since most women's lines now come in 0 and 00, and many items in the lines skew young, you may want to try looking in the women's departments for your children. Conservative clothes are alive and well there. Jumpers worn with t-shirts underneath are especially trendy for fall.

--vatonyc

(To reply, click here.)

One commenter asked why girls don't want to be children anymore. A better question might be: when did children EVER want to be children? They play at dolls, or construction equipment, or war not realizing that the adult reality is quite different from what they imagine. They sit around bored in idle moments not realizing that someday they'll miss having nothing to do. When given the chance to do so, they frequently choose to wear the same clothing that they see the adults they look up to wearing. If that clothing happens to be butt-huggers and wife-beaters, or thongs and low-rise jeans, so be it. This has been going on for as long as adults and children have worn different clothing. It is nothing new.

While comparisons between dress codes and burkhas are overblown, they do have a basis in reality. What does one typically hear from traditional Muslims in response to the notion of women wearing something more revealing than burkhas? Usually something along the lines of "What?! If they don't cover themselves, then men will be unable to control themselves, their minds filled with lustful thoughts!".

Compare that with "She can't wear that to school! It'll be a distraction to the other students and a disruption of learning!". Somehow, we Western adults get along quite well without shapeless robes; most of the time, we're even able to control ourselves and conduct professional business. Likewise, my memories of teenagehood are of being able to go about business quite nicely even with supposedly 'distracting' clothing being worn by my fellow students.

If you're used to seeing a particular style of clothing, either on a single person, or on most of the people around you, it ceases to be a distraction. It becomes part of the lay of the land.

--feline74

(To reply, click here.)

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