Hope for Carmela
From: Judith Shulevitz
To: Glen Gabbard, Margaret Crastnopol, Philip Ringstrom, and Joel WhitebookUpdated Monday, Dec. 2, 2002, at 11:48 AM ET
Who are these people?
Phil is onto something here: There seems to be nowhere for The Sopranos to go but down, and as they spiral into their endgame, the show can only get grimmer and harder to watch. The Ralphie-whacking episode seems exemplary in that regard: As filmmaking, it was brilliantly executed; it got across with a terrible clarity what it feels like to have crossed moral categories, to have gone from innocent to guilty, without meaning to (that may sound odd, given how many people Tony has killed, but even he knows that killing Ralphie is of another order of magnitude, whereas all his other murders were just "business"); and it seemed to put Tony beyond redemption. I don't know what the writers can do with him from here on out except maneuver all the other characters into a position to kill him off. It's depressing to watch that; it's got a dead-man-walking feel to it; and I don't know if I can follow the Sopranos into the fifth season, though given that there's almost nothing else out there that's as good, I probably will. I love Phil's idea of Tony continuing on as a strictly psychic presence, although I don't know if there's anyone else who could carry the weight of the show as he does.
That's why it was such a delight to see Carmela come into her own as a fully flawed human being. Sure she's had crushes before, but she always maintained some semblance of self-control whenever the love object wasn't around. This time she's truly lost it. I agree that she demonstrates a surprising lack of self-awareness and seems shockingly willing to destroy her relationship with a daughter who has finally turned into everything she, Carmela, wanted her to be, but I have more hope for Carmela than I do for Tony or anyone else on the show, for that matter. Maybe the thwarting of her deepest romantic desires will finally force her to confront how unhappy she is. Of all the characters on the show, she seems like the one with the greatest capacity for moral development, and if there are going to be any real surprises—if anyone besides Meadow is going to manage to save him- or herself—I'd put my money on Carmela.
Hope for Carmela
From: Judith Shulevitz
To: Glen Gabbard, Margaret Crastnopol, Philip Ringstrom, and Joel WhitebookUpdated Monday, Dec. 2, 2002, at 11:48 AM ETGlen O. Gabbard, M.D., is a professor of psychiatry at Baylor College of Medicine and author of
The Psychology of The Sopranos, inspired by this discussion. Philip A. Ringstrom, Ph.D., Psy.D., is a senior faculty member at the Institute of Contemporary Psychoanalysis in Los Angeles. Joel Whitebook, Ph.D., is on the faculty of the Columbia Center for Psychoanalytic Training and Research. Margaret Crastnopol, Ph.D., is on the faculty of the Northwest Center for Psychoanalysis. All are practicing therapists as well. Judith Shulevitz writes the "Close Reader" column for the
New York Times Book Review. Jodi Kantor is
Slate's New York editor.
Notes From The Fray Editor II:
Updating: wellmanswellman thinks Carmela is preggers. Syosset_Guy thinks there is too much emphasis on whacking and that no way is Tony gonna get it. And chango and rob_said_that have a nifty discussion of Tony's homophobia (or lack thereof).
Remarks From The Fray II:
Carmela reacts so strongly to allegations of Billy Budd being gay, because she has already cast Furio into the role of the tragic sailor. Furio's mutinous thoughts correspond, albeit imperfectly, to the plot of Billy Budd. The film version she has seen does not provide the gay subtext of the novel, so Carmela has a version perfectly edited for her own casting agenda. One can imagine the Billy Budd Furio, standing proudly erect on a ship's prow, with his luxurious locks flowing in the sea breeze. Reminiscent of a Fabio romance novel, no?
Surprisingly, it is Tony who tries to mediate the gay Billy Budd controversy, and even begs pardon for his son's use of the term "fag." Although it is clear that this open mindedness has more to do with anxiety about Meadow's male roommate than with sensitivity.
Or does it? Tony appears ambivalent to gays, which might be surprising considering his generally provincial worldview. Yet his handling of Ralphie's decidedly queer sexuality suggests Tony takes a pragmatic, laissez-faire view of sexuality. He might not understand the vagaries of sex, but he does not necessary condemn that which he does not comprehend.
Is it a coincidence that the episode following Tony's rejection of therapy shows him more stable, connected and together than any in recent memory? He shows an uncharacteristic empathy for Carmela and Meadow, even analyzing their relationship and conflict in surprisingly astute terms. Throughout the episode, Tony gives us a glimpse of his potential: a strong yet sensitive father and an efficient and pragmatic Boss. Could this New Tony presage a death made more tragic by his newfound inner strength?
And, speaking of tragic death, what comedy that AJ's second assignment should be yet another "gay" text: Death in Venice. Perhaps Carmela has seen the film version of this novella as well. Like the protagonist in Death in Venice, Furio flees to Italy for renewal (although in his case, it's Naples, not Venice). Will Furio find a metaphoric sexual epidemic awaiting him there? The graffiti transformation of a Venetian gondola into a penis suggests that the Death in Venice motif has only just begun.
-- chango
(To reply, click here.)
I had the same reaction when A.J. started reading the Thomas Mann. What a riot.
I have to disagree, however, that Tony "tolerates" gays. I think he tolerates them the way he tolerates blacks: they're all right as long as they don't try to enter his life. Remember that Tony didn't kill Ralphie until, finally, he had satisfied himself that Ralphie was some sort of "pervert." The horse was a provocation, sure, but with the sexual curtain open Ralphie was weak, a liability. He even paid Janice for the information, which suggests that his interest was more than mere curiosity: it was business, plain and simple.
I also think that the "gay" probing at dinner was Tony's blundering way of establishing whether Meadow was in harm's way sexually by living in a mixed-sex roommate environment. He actually seemed annoyed that the roomate *wasn't* gay, as if he might have to step in and wrestle with that situation now too. A gay man would pose no threat to his daughter's -- what, virginity? Honor?
Underneath it all, Tony is extremely traditional and violently reactionary. Remember how he belt-whipped the councilman who was diddling one of his former girlfriends? That scene seemed gratuitous at the time, but now it may be essential to an understanding Tony's character.
-- rob_said_that
(To reply, click here.)
Notes From The Fray Editor:
Even before our psychologists checked in, the Fray was busy debating Furio's fate and Johnny Sack's motivations. (The Sack thread is excellent and begins here.) GMG, one of our Sopranos regulars, captures the pathos of Furio's decision to leave while zinya (once Carolyn) neatly describes Meadow's "family secret."
Remarks From The Fray:
It is somewhat sad what Furio is giving up for Carmela's safety. He knows he could never kill Tony, the chopper incident proved that. So he cannot have her, his uncle's advice is sound, and she must not be allowed to pursue him. The only way to prevent that is to retreat to Italy, where Carm would be relatively helpless.
In spite of the fact that Furio loves her. In spite of the fact that he is obviously disgusted with the drunken, gambling Tony for cheating on her. (Carmela as Madonna figure to Furio?) In spite of the fact that (glancing sidelong while they both urinate) Furio doesn't think much of Tony's manhood.
He cannot simply move to Mineola or Minneapolis; Carmela would pursue him, find some reason. Napoli is much safer. So for her, he gives up the U.S. (which he loves, did you see the way his eyes fixed on the displays of flags at roadside gas stations) for Naples, which is no longer a place he wants to be. He returns to the female boss, the hamburger wrappers at the Naples Cathedral--a place where he will be unhappy, so that Carmela may live.
-- GMG
(To reply, click here.)
Tony is clueless about Furio, just as AJ is, despite all his firsthand evidence. Only Meadow puts the pieces together and deduces what's up with her mom, and giving Meadow too a family secret to now have to 'manage'. (That scene on the stairs of Tony and Meadow felt very real psychologically--especially Meadow's tracking of multiple new pieces of information, especially in the eyes, of both.)
-- zinya
(To reply, click here.)
(12/2)
What did you think of this article?
Join The Fray: Our Reader Discussion Forum
PRINT
DISCUSS
E-MAIL
RSS
RECOMMEND...
Facebook
MySpace
Mixx
Digg
Reddit
del.icio.us
Furl
Ma.gnolia
Sphere
StumbleUpon
Obama's New Church
Eric Holder Is the Right Man To Fix the Justice Department
Why Do Movie Vampires Keep Changing All the Vampire Rules?
18 Million People Watch NCIS. Should You?
The Best Wines To Drink With Your Thanksgiving Turkey
How Do Wildfires Get Such Weird Names?
"A Beach Ball Gets Lost"
Notes From The Fray Editor II:
Updating: wellmanswellman thinks Carmela is preggers. Syosset_Guy thinks there is too much emphasis on whacking and that no way is Tony gonna get it. And chango and rob_said_that have a nifty discussion of Tony's homophobia (or lack thereof).
Remarks From The Fray II:
Carmela reacts so strongly to allegations of Billy Budd being gay, because she has already cast Furio into the role of the tragic sailor. Furio's mutinous thoughts correspond, albeit imperfectly, to the plot of Billy Budd. The film version she has seen does not provide the gay subtext of the novel, so Carmela has a version perfectly edited for her own casting agenda. One can imagine the Billy Budd Furio, standing proudly erect on a ship's prow, with his luxurious locks flowing in the sea breeze. Reminiscent of a Fabio romance novel, no?
Surprisingly, it is Tony who tries to mediate the gay Billy Budd controversy, and even begs pardon for his son's use of the term "fag." Although it is clear that this open mindedness has more to do with anxiety about Meadow's male roommate than with sensitivity.
Or does it? Tony appears ambivalent to gays, which might be surprising considering his generally provincial worldview. Yet his handling of Ralphie's decidedly queer sexuality suggests Tony takes a pragmatic, laissez-faire view of sexuality. He might not understand the vagaries of sex, but he does not necessary condemn that which he does not comprehend.
Is it a coincidence that the episode following Tony's rejection of therapy shows him more stable, connected and together than any in recent memory? He shows an uncharacteristic empathy for Carmela and Meadow, even analyzing their relationship and conflict in surprisingly astute terms. Throughout the episode, Tony gives us a glimpse of his potential: a strong yet sensitive father and an efficient and pragmatic Boss. Could this New Tony presage a death made more tragic by his newfound inner strength?
And, speaking of tragic death, what comedy that AJ's second assignment should be yet another "gay" text: Death in Venice. Perhaps Carmela has seen the film version of this novella as well. Like the protagonist in Death in Venice, Furio flees to Italy for renewal (although in his case, it's Naples, not Venice). Will Furio find a metaphoric sexual epidemic awaiting him there? The graffiti transformation of a Venetian gondola into a penis suggests that the Death in Venice motif has only just begun.
-- chango
(To reply, click here.)
I had the same reaction when A.J. started reading the Thomas Mann. What a riot.
I have to disagree, however, that Tony "tolerates" gays. I think he tolerates them the way he tolerates blacks: they're all right as long as they don't try to enter his life. Remember that Tony didn't kill Ralphie until, finally, he had satisfied himself that Ralphie was some sort of "pervert." The horse was a provocation, sure, but with the sexual curtain open Ralphie was weak, a liability. He even paid Janice for the information, which suggests that his interest was more than mere curiosity: it was business, plain and simple.
I also think that the "gay" probing at dinner was Tony's blundering way of establishing whether Meadow was in harm's way sexually by living in a mixed-sex roommate environment. He actually seemed annoyed that the roomate *wasn't* gay, as if he might have to step in and wrestle with that situation now too. A gay man would pose no threat to his daughter's -- what, virginity? Honor?
Underneath it all, Tony is extremely traditional and violently reactionary. Remember how he belt-whipped the councilman who was diddling one of his former girlfriends? That scene seemed gratuitous at the time, but now it may be essential to an understanding Tony's character.
-- rob_said_that
(To reply, click here.)
Notes From The Fray Editor:
Even before our psychologists checked in, the Fray was busy debating Furio's fate and Johnny Sack's motivations. (The Sack thread is excellent and begins here.) GMG, one of our Sopranos regulars, captures the pathos of Furio's decision to leave while zinya (once Carolyn) neatly describes Meadow's "family secret."
Remarks From The Fray:
It is somewhat sad what Furio is giving up for Carmela's safety. He knows he could never kill Tony, the chopper incident proved that. So he cannot have her, his uncle's advice is sound, and she must not be allowed to pursue him. The only way to prevent that is to retreat to Italy, where Carm would be relatively helpless.
In spite of the fact that Furio loves her. In spite of the fact that he is obviously disgusted with the drunken, gambling Tony for cheating on her. (Carmela as Madonna figure to Furio?) In spite of the fact that (glancing sidelong while they both urinate) Furio doesn't think much of Tony's manhood.
He cannot simply move to Mineola or Minneapolis; Carmela would pursue him, find some reason. Napoli is much safer. So for her, he gives up the U.S. (which he loves, did you see the way his eyes fixed on the displays of flags at roadside gas stations) for Naples, which is no longer a place he wants to be. He returns to the female boss, the hamburger wrappers at the Naples Cathedral--a place where he will be unhappy, so that Carmela may live.
-- GMG
(To reply, click here.)
Tony is clueless about Furio, just as AJ is, despite all his firsthand evidence. Only Meadow puts the pieces together and deduces what's up with her mom, and giving Meadow too a family secret to now have to 'manage'. (That scene on the stairs of Tony and Meadow felt very real psychologically--especially Meadow's tracking of multiple new pieces of information, especially in the eyes, of both.)
-- zinya
(To reply, click here.)
(12/2)