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Should there be a shooting range next to the Supreme Court gift shop?
Walter Dellinger
posted June 27, 2008 - The Supreme Court Breakfast Table
Was it ever Miller time?
Dahlia Lithwick
posted June 26, 2008 - What's the Big Secret?
Continuing the conversation.
Patrick Radden Keefe
posted Aug. 30, 2007 - A Supreme Court Conversation
Everything convservatives should abhor.
Walter Dellinger
posted June 29, 2007 - The Midterm Elections
The blame game, George Allen, and more.
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to: Walter Dellinger
Justice Isn't Always Pretty
Posted Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 11:42 AM ET


Walter Dellinger is head of the national appellate practice at O'Melveny & Myers in Washington, D.C. He is also the Douglas B. Maggs Professor of Law at Duke University. Dahlia Lithwick is a Slate senior editor.
Good morning, Walter,
I hope those state attorneys general are treating you well, laughing at all your jokes, and spilling lots of state secrets for you to share.
Lots to talk about this morning—before the decisions come down—and yes, the dog mauling case is a good place to start.
I completely agree with you about the result: There's little doubt in my mind that the murder conviction for Marjorie Knoller was just not supported by the evidence. A second-degree murder conviction requires some element of intent that simply wasn't present. But I disagree with you on two other points: I think Judge Warren shouldn't have used his authority to overrule the jury after the fact. He could and should have kept the murder charge from going to the jury from the outset (or even at the end of the trial!) if he didn't believe it could be proved. As a result he just looked ham-fisted to me, not courageous. I also disagree that people are upset merely because they these defendants are such grotesque human beings. I suspect even if the defendants were more attractive, the public would be dissatisfied because we rely on the courts to provide perfect justice (often pronounced "vengeance"), and a mere manslaughter conviction for such carnage just does not meet the "eye for an eye" gut test.
Of course today's big legal story is the Justice Department's claim that Yaser Esam Hamdi, an American citizen, can be detained for all time, without the right to any meaningful judicial review. Here's the Post's editorial. We talked yesterday about the impossibility of trying Zacarias Moussaoui in a way that is both constitutional and safe. And many of us who write about the law have come under justifiable fire (you should read my recent Frays!) for writing pieces that careen wildly between wanting to prevent future acts of terror and fearing even the smallest erosions of constitutional freedoms. But Hamdi is an easy one. No hand-wringing for me here: Precluding judicial review by fiat, even in wartime, is inexcusable, unless you lack confidence in either your evidence or your justice system.
And now I must ask you a question in your capacity as the guy who made every Al Gore "short-list" for a Supreme Court gig, two short years ago: What do you make of the rumors last week that Chief Justice Rehnquist is leaving? What do you make of the odd Post story suggesting that Justice Kennedy is ramping up for the chief's job by giving lots of speeches? Are these just the perennial retirement rumors that pop up each June like my lilies? Are you on some short-list list that speculates about such matters? C'mon, Walter. You can tell me. I'll keep it under my hat.
Sneakily yours,
Dahlia
to: Walter Dellinger
Justice Isn't Always Pretty
Posted Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 11:42 AM ETNotes From the Fray Editor:
The Breakfast Table Fray has remained a shining example for all. The Table moved from discussions of the merits of Atkins to broader discussions of the nature of court representation. The Fray moved along with it. Several incisive debates about the nature of contemporary judicial federalism and Dellinger's "rule of three" have ensued. One of the best Frays ever began with Dira Necessitas's supposition that Lithwick would stop her Scalia-bashing—a harmless introduction to a fascinating juridico-psychoanalysis (or psycho-juridical analysis).
Notes From the Fray:
[Dellinger] has the good sense to understand that judicial overreaching is not a liberal or a conservative problem but an institutional one that should be resisted by everyone who has a shred of faith in democracy and, in particular, in the increasingly quaint idea that popular legislatures should make legislative decisions….
There is a longer-term insidious consequence of judicial overreaching, too, that takes the form of executives and legislatures dallying about nearly everything really controversial in the hope -- increasingly realized -- that they will be relieved of the hot potatoes by the courts, especially the SCOTUS.
-- Publius
(To reply, click here.)
I challenge [Lithwick's] shorthand characterization of that Federalism jurisprudence as "efforts at curbing congressional overreaching (often to give powers back to the states)".
That portrays some of the less controversial of the Court's Federalist opinions. But the most controversial and decidedly activist sequence of the Federalist opinions -- their so-called Eleventh Amendment jurisprudence, named for the Amendment that they now admit does not say what they earlier said it says -- has nothing to do with Congressional overreaching. The issue in the cases I was referring to in the quoted paragraphs above (including the case that the Court agreed this morning to hear) and which I believe Dellinger was referring to did not concern federal legislation whose purpose was to usurp for the federal government powers traditionally held by the states. The statutes at issue have broad applicability not just to state governments but to private entities also.
The Court's conservative narrow majority says the Constitution protects states from being subject to such legislation, this notwithstanding their recent acknowledgment that the text of the Constitution actually contains no such protection.
-- Beverly Mann
(To reply, click here.)
Let's apply Dellinger's analysis to Castillo's streak. The reason that the "Latin American record" was noted and celebrated was that it matters enormously to an important group of baseball fans - Latin Americans in their native countries. Prowess in baseball is an important signal to many in those countries that they belong (maybe more important than prowess in soccer, because the Dominican Republic et al. have great success in placing players in the best professional baseball league). That's why people in Latin American countries know which Latin American players have the most career hits, career wins, the best batting average, etc. Until they stop paying attention to the success of Latin American players compared to other Latin American players, then it's reasonable for baseball to do so, even under Dellinger's analysis.
Besides, it's good marketing.
-- randy khan
(To reply, click here.)
(7/25)
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