the breakfast table
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- The Supreme Court Breakfast Table
Should there be a shooting range next to the Supreme Court gift shop?
Walter Dellinger
posted June 27, 2008 - The Supreme Court Breakfast Table
Was it ever Miller time?
Dahlia Lithwick
posted June 26, 2008 - What's the Big Secret?
Continuing the conversation.
Patrick Radden Keefe
posted Aug. 30, 2007 - A Supreme Court Conversation
Everything convservatives should abhor.
Walter Dellinger
posted June 29, 2007 - The Midterm Elections
The blame game, George Allen, and more.
Mark Halperin
posted Nov. 3, 2006 - Search for more the breakfast table articles
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Andy Dehnart, Wesley Morris, and Alex Pappademas
The Merging of Culture and Morals
Posted Wednesday, April 25, 2001, at 4:27 PM ETIs there really a difference between a moral standpoint and a cultural one? Doesn't our culture inform our morals to such a great extent that not only are the lines blurred and the circles overlapping, but that they all basically become one homogenous ball? You can't have morals independent of culture; they don't exist in a vacuum. (Which is what bothers me about libertarian "natural rights" arguments. You don't have rights to anything if you're born on a raft in the middle of the ocean; you need someone or something to grant you those rights.)
Back to the MTV ads: They may play to (or, to use your friend's word, Alex, co-opt) the STD ads in an offensive or tasteless way. But don't many PSAs--for STDs, drugs, whatever--similarly co-opt our aesthetic and cultural values? Everything uses everything else to some degree, so why is MTV criticized for it when those that create PSAs are given a pass?
Is it because they're communicating an important message? If so, who determines what messages are important? For example, those "this is your brain on drugs" ads were clearly at least misleading on some (anecdotal) levels. Someone mentioned at lunch today that Robert Downey Jr. needs help because he's hurting himself after being arrested yet again. Why does he need help? Have you seen the guy recently on Ally McBeal? In Wonder Boys? He can act, and if he can act while he's coked up, bravo. Sure, drugs screw many people up and have devastating consequences, and I'm not trivializing that. That was just a tangent to prove my point that not all PSAs are necessarily morally right and thus worthy of exemption from critique. Phew.
Is it just me, or does it feel right now like we're debating late at night in a dorm lobby that smells like a mix of industrial strength pine cleaner and stale bodily fluids?
Andy
The Merging of Culture and Morals
Posted Wednesday, April 25, 2001, at 4:27 PM ETReader Comments From The Fray:
[Notes from the Fray Editor: President Bush on drilling, MTV and the youth market: same situation? Talk to WillV here. Thread your way through all the posts saying yes they do have the ads in Chicago (we know now, OK?) and find some posted lists: Zeitguy's Rools of Cool, Paul Caniff's answers to questions, and Gypsy's theory on disco. Jared White suggests Eggertian rather than Eggersesque. Check out the checkmarks for discussions on criticism and music. For more good stuff on film reviews read in full the fascinating posts from Steve Sailer and Aluminum Man (below). Done all that? Congratulations, you are now a complete popular culture Instant Expert. (Or a Breakfast Table Fray expert--same thing.)]
At the risk of sounding churlish--or rather, gleefully trying to sound churlish--the comment of your "Breakfast Table" writer about the Bush administration--"Essentially, they're politically motivated cowards" [Monday's entry]--demonstrates an acute lack of insight into, well, one of the great features of civilization. Politically motivated bravery is usually a suspect virtue--it led Napoleon into Russia, Hoover into a principled stand against "hand-outs," and Tom DeLay into being Tom DeLay. The real problem is that the Bushies face no bullying from the other side of the aisle: nobody who is willing to demagogue them, dog them, and dice them into the neutered conservatism which was Jr.'s daddy's trademark. In the weird mores of Washington, the dogger/dicer really doesn't have to have a national constituency--just a nasty taste for institutional infighting. If only Wellstone had Gingrich's taste for lowmindedness.
--Roger
(To reply, click here.)
Having recently become the film critic for United Press International, I've been thinking a lot about these issues. The biggest problem with movie reviews in general is that reviewers are so homogenous--almost always male, white, upper middle class, with a grad degree in humanities or liberal arts, urban, high IQ, intellectual but not hugely logical or well-informed about things beyond the cultural realm like business or science or sociology, and extremely opinionated--that the tastes of huge demographic groups get ignored. I fall in most of those categories, too, but coming at a rather late age to this trade, I just don't as often experience anymore the testosterone surge that makes me want to shove my opinion down the throats of people who aren't like me.
For example, women. Over the years I've noticed that women generally don't like the same movies I like. That used to offend me greatly. I figured I could cure women of their bad taste in movies by exposing them to the really good stuff (i.e., what I liked) and explaining to them--over and over again--why it's better than the crap they liked. Slowly, though, I grew to respect women and their tastes more. I also learned that lots of other people aren't as smart as me and that making them watch what I liked to watch wasn't going to make them enjoy it more. Now, I take steps to help put myself in other peoples' shoes...
--Steve Sailer
(To reply, or to read this post in full, click here.)
Most Tom Green fans (and I'm not one of them) will have already decided to see Freddy Got Fingered a long time ago, and nothing that reviews have said (or will say) makes any difference. The same is true of the upcoming Lord of the Rings trilogy or the last installments of the increasingly awful Star Wars series. In fact, contrary to what the Breakfast Tablers are suggesting, I think most people have their minds made up about whether or not to see any given movie long before reviews hits the stands.
What informed, thoughtful, articulate critics can do is make us see, hear and understand things in movies that we otherwise might miss. They can challenge us by forcing us to examine elements that we might otherwise pass over, and make us look at a movie from a perspective perhaps unlike our own.
--Aluminum Man
(To reply, click here.)
(4/25)
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