William F. Buckley Jr. and Michael Kinsley
May I Call You Michael?
By William Buckley Jr.
Posted Monday, March 26, 2001, at 10:58 AM ETMichael Kinsley reminisced on the late William F. Buckley during an online chat on Feb. 28, 2008. Read the transcript.
Dear Michael,
Inasmuch as informality is encouraged in such exchanges as we are embarking on, let's spend a minute on your first name. I remember, 60 or 70 Firing Lines ago, venturing to say to you, "Is there any problem if I introduce you as MICHAEL Kinsley, instead of Mike?" You nodded your head; but as I think of it, back then perhaps I intimidated you, a memorable period perhaps because it was so brief. But you now uniformly do the MIKE bit and I begin to wonder whether there is ideology there, as in JIMMY Carter and AL Gore.
You are entitled to comment (this being your magazine, that's obvious) that I am called BILL Buckley. My response is in two parts. First, William is a little bit of a jawbreaker. Even Prince William has become WILLS. Having said that, I report ruefully that in trade, everybody now calls me William, as in, "What Windows operating system are you using, William?" For a while I tried to stop that, not to plead the cause of BILL, but the cause of Mr. Buckley. I have abandoned the crusade. Lost causes have been my coddled pets over a lifetime, but I am not strong enough to take on a fresh one, even on behalf of civility.
And secondly, I do not use BILL in any situation in which formality is so much as suggested, viz., my letterhead. When I named Rich Lowry as editor of National Review, I made bold to say to him that when his name appeared, it would seem to me unobjectionable if he were to emerge as RICHARD Lowry. But I didn't press the point, and so waited eagerly for the first Lowry issue of NR, upon seeing which I was gratified not only by the magazine as a whole, which I regularly am, but by the masthead. Which reminds me that a tradition, who knows how old--the Yale News is the oldest college daily--required that the officers of the Yale Daily News appear as WILLIAM FRANK BUCKLEY JR., CHAIRMAN. I don't remember how it then was, or now is, with the Harvard Crimson, but perhaps Mike, Bill, and Rich is how they do it now, appeasing who? Why?
My son (whom I called Christo) signs his name Christopher, which goes to make a supernumerary point, namely that he inherited yet another of his father's graces.
May I Call You Michael?
By William Buckley Jr.
Posted Monday, March 26, 2001, at 10:58 AM ETReader Comments from The Fray:
[Thursday notes from the Fray Editor: Bruce F. Cole appears to be addressing here some amalgamated version of the two distinguished Breakfast Tablers, but we never let that sort of consideration stand in the way of a cheap shot in The Fray. A couple of readers pointed out that the Girard bequest to which Mr. Buckley refers (Wednesday) was made in the 1840s; the Supreme Court struck down its whites-only provision in 1968. Tom R (yes, again) writes about diversity with the memorable sentence "Working for the Air Force you get all sorts of opportunities to find out how to discriminate against other people, sexually prey on their weaknesses, steal the government's money, and solicit bribes from government contractors." There appears to be some attempt to link this description with Slate, but best left hidden we think.]
Boycotts are for sissies. The Yale students planning a boycott of Clinton's appearance are only doing it to draw attention to themselves. They deserve no such attention. Boycotting a speech doesn't do anything. It doesn't even say anything. It just sort of suggests that people who do not want to do or even say anything want very badly to look as if they are.
Do these Yalies disapprove of Sen. Clinton, or what she represents? Fine; let them show in their post-Yale lives that they stand for something better. That would be a statement worth making. Right now it doesn't sound as if they have anything to say.
--Joseph Britt
(To reply, click here.)
[Wednesday notes from the Fray Editor: The Fray is divided into two camps: those who think modes of address a dull topic, and those who cannot pile their perceptions in fast enough. There is also a meta-level of discussion as to what makes a good "Breakfast Table" and a good Fray--see for example Charmy, here. Alexander Chancellor raises an excellent point about possible national differences in formality.
Those who could tear themselves away from names wanted to discuss affirmative action here, and here ("I'm confused, they're both wrong"). Tom R, in addition to the contribution below, revealed that he once received a memorably specific grant for being an "exceptional married engineering student who planned to attend grad school". We're sure you deserved it Tom. More good stories here and here.
Publius wants the Fray Editor to ask Mr Buckley a question, but Zeitguy knows why she can't: "We talk to Kinsley, Kinsley talks to God, God sends email to Buckley..."]
Being an old friend of Michael or Mike Kinsley, yet still undecided whether to call him Mike or Michael, I am particularly interested in this correspondence. I tend towards calling him Michael, not because I object to "Mike" in any way at all but because I am British and somehow assume that "Michael" is what would be expected of me by Americans, even though Britain long ago became a nation of "Mikes" rather than "Michaels". When I was editor of the Spectator in the 1970s, I published a couple of rather dull articles by a young lawyer under the name Anthony Blair. He is now Prime Minister and would be appalled if anyone called him anything other than Tony.
--Alexander Chancellor
(To reply, or to read this post in full, click here.)
If, as Mr. Kinsley suggests, Mr. Buckley must defend his preference for civilized formality on grounds other than tradition, it seems to me Kinsley should argue for informality on grounds other than its current vogue among Internet users. They've also made all-lowercase the standard for email, but we're in no rush to adopt that as general usage.
--Scott Dickensheets
(To reply, click here.)
Harvard may be privately controlled but it's larded with government funding in both its research programs and in government subsidies for basic education programs. I'd only accept Mr. Buckley's concept about affirmative action being acceptable for the private sector if in fact Harvard (or any other private college) could set up some sort of 'Chinese Wall' to segregate the publicly funded segments from the privately funded segments. The latter then could come under the Buckley programmatic blessing.
--Tom R
(To reply, click here.)
[Monday notes from the Fray Editor: It would be quite an achievement to be considered the biggest troublemaker on the Fray, but we may have a contender: step forward Neill Hamilton. We are naturally not going to publish the offending post, in which he tries to turn Breakfast Tablers against each other, but we will tell you that he has tried this in the past (here and here) and made a notably bad taste post which required a special reader warning. Amber, below, is doing her best, too.]
Two thoughts for Mr. Buckley: The nicknamed figures of stature you mention are Southerners. For reasons I've never quite plumbed, given names are normally shortened there (I accepted the same sort of abbreviation during several years in the South), regardless of the formality of the situation. Yankees adopt nicknames less consistently.
As a New Yorker somewhere in age between you and Michael Kinsley, I can't escape thinking of you as Mr. Buckley and him as Michael. Age evidently has something to do with it. In print, his bylines are always Michael, but he's a leader in an industry largely run by and for an even younger generation, one far less formal than either of you.
The more interesting question might be if it matters at all in this era. A great many Southerners command respect whatever they're called.
--Ellie C
(To reply, click here.)
What do your parents call you when you are in trouble? By your nickname or by your full name? Seems to me William, and poor Christopher, were awful children who did nothing but get into mischief and trouble. They are just used to being called by their full names.
--Amber
(To reply, click here.)
(3/26)
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Reader Comments from The Fray:
[Thursday notes from the Fray Editor: Bruce F. Cole appears to be addressing here some amalgamated version of the two distinguished Breakfast Tablers, but we never let that sort of consideration stand in the way of a cheap shot in The Fray. A couple of readers pointed out that the Girard bequest to which Mr. Buckley refers (Wednesday) was made in the 1840s; the Supreme Court struck down its whites-only provision in 1968. Tom R (yes, again) writes about diversity with the memorable sentence "Working for the Air Force you get all sorts of opportunities to find out how to discriminate against other people, sexually prey on their weaknesses, steal the government's money, and solicit bribes from government contractors." There appears to be some attempt to link this description with Slate, but best left hidden we think.]
Boycotts are for sissies. The Yale students planning a boycott of Clinton's appearance are only doing it to draw attention to themselves. They deserve no such attention. Boycotting a speech doesn't do anything. It doesn't even say anything. It just sort of suggests that people who do not want to do or even say anything want very badly to look as if they are.
Do these Yalies disapprove of Sen. Clinton, or what she represents? Fine; let them show in their post-Yale lives that they stand for something better. That would be a statement worth making. Right now it doesn't sound as if they have anything to say.
--Joseph Britt
(To reply, click here.)
[Wednesday notes from the Fray Editor: The Fray is divided into two camps: those who think modes of address a dull topic, and those who cannot pile their perceptions in fast enough. There is also a meta-level of discussion as to what makes a good "Breakfast Table" and a good Fray--see for example Charmy, here. Alexander Chancellor raises an excellent point about possible national differences in formality.
Those who could tear themselves away from names wanted to discuss affirmative action here, and here ("I'm confused, they're both wrong"). Tom R, in addition to the contribution below, revealed that he once received a memorably specific grant for being an "exceptional married engineering student who planned to attend grad school". We're sure you deserved it Tom. More good stories here and here.
Publius wants the Fray Editor to ask Mr Buckley a question, but Zeitguy knows why she can't: "We talk to Kinsley, Kinsley talks to God, God sends email to Buckley..."]
Being an old friend of Michael or Mike Kinsley, yet still undecided whether to call him Mike or Michael, I am particularly interested in this correspondence. I tend towards calling him Michael, not because I object to "Mike" in any way at all but because I am British and somehow assume that "Michael" is what would be expected of me by Americans, even though Britain long ago became a nation of "Mikes" rather than "Michaels". When I was editor of the Spectator in the 1970s, I published a couple of rather dull articles by a young lawyer under the name Anthony Blair. He is now Prime Minister and would be appalled if anyone called him anything other than Tony.
--Alexander Chancellor
(To reply, or to read this post in full, click here.)
If, as Mr. Kinsley suggests, Mr. Buckley must defend his preference for civilized formality on grounds other than tradition, it seems to me Kinsley should argue for informality on grounds other than its current vogue among Internet users. They've also made all-lowercase the standard for email, but we're in no rush to adopt that as general usage.
--Scott Dickensheets
(To reply, click here.)
Harvard may be privately controlled but it's larded with government funding in both its research programs and in government subsidies for basic education programs. I'd only accept Mr. Buckley's concept about affirmative action being acceptable for the private sector if in fact Harvard (or any other private college) could set up some sort of 'Chinese Wall' to segregate the publicly funded segments from the privately funded segments. The latter then could come under the Buckley programmatic blessing.
--Tom R
(To reply, click here.)
[Monday notes from the Fray Editor: It would be quite an achievement to be considered the biggest troublemaker on the Fray, but we may have a contender: step forward Neill Hamilton. We are naturally not going to publish the offending post, in which he tries to turn Breakfast Tablers against each other, but we will tell you that he has tried this in the past (here and here) and made a notably bad taste post which required a special reader warning. Amber, below, is doing her best, too.]
Two thoughts for Mr. Buckley: The nicknamed figures of stature you mention are Southerners. For reasons I've never quite plumbed, given names are normally shortened there (I accepted the same sort of abbreviation during several years in the South), regardless of the formality of the situation. Yankees adopt nicknames less consistently.
As a New Yorker somewhere in age between you and Michael Kinsley, I can't escape thinking of you as Mr. Buckley and him as Michael. Age evidently has something to do with it. In print, his bylines are always Michael, but he's a leader in an industry largely run by and for an even younger generation, one far less formal than either of you.
The more interesting question might be if it matters at all in this era. A great many Southerners command respect whatever they're called.
--Ellie C
(To reply, click here.)
What do your parents call you when you are in trouble? By your nickname or by your full name? Seems to me William, and poor Christopher, were awful children who did nothing but get into mischief and trouble. They are just used to being called by their full names.
--Amber
(To reply, click here.)
(3/26)