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the breakfast table: An e-mail conversation about the news of the day.

Debra Dickerson and Erroll McDonald

from: Debra Dickerson

Jesus Ain't Enuf!

Posted Wednesday, Sept. 6, 2000, at 4:01 PM ET

Dear Erroll,

You might not be aware of something we in the know call "The Fray." You haven't lived till you've checked that out. That's the place where thoughtful, intelligent readers with a sincere desire for idea exchange get drowned out by a moron pack the size of the Reagan deficit. You have to tiptoe through the morass of self-important brain feces the creators of which clearly believe to be genius (see especially the one purporting to "out" me as a hypocrite for writing for National Review and the all too predictable what-about-black-slave-owners/my-family-didn't-get-here-til-after-the-Civil-War time-wasters), but there are always a few entries that make this all worthwhile. I think you'll particularly like the one who read your entry launching the reparations discussion to mean that you're a racist honky. Scroll down to the very bottom, if you want to both see what reasonable people are thinking and feel like you dodged a genetic bullet.



On to religion, the hottest topic of the new millennium (think that's official: I saw it on a priest's collar). Today, the Vatican issued a dictum declaring that individuals can attain full salvation from earthly sin only through the spiritual grace of the Catholic Church and that other faiths--including Protestant Christian ones--have defects that place their followers in a "gravely deficient situation" in seeking salvation. Ooooooh! You're gonna burn in hell, you devil Baptist! Jesus ain't enuf--you gotta sniff incense and kneel on those hard wooden thingies. The goal, we're told, is to combat the "so-called theology of religious pluralism," which suggests that Catholics are on a par in God's eyes with, say, Jews, Muslims, or Hindus.

I wonder if these guys know about the guy here in D.C. who, rain, shine, or need to pee, is outside the Vatican Embassy. He holds up one of two or three signs, all of which says things like "The Catholic Church is a pedophile factory." I'm guessing he believes himself, or someone he loves, to have been sexually abused by a priest. Wonder if he'd stop if he knew that the pedophile factory was his only hope of salvation and that the billions of other people who believe differently will be joining him in hell?

Yours in damnation,
Deb

from: Debra Dickerson

Jesus Ain't Enuf!

Posted Wednesday, Sept. 6, 2000, at 4:01 PM ET
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Debra Dickerson is a senior fellow at the New America Foundation and a columnist for Beliefnet.com. Her memoir, An American Story, will be published this month (click here to buy it). Erroll McDonald is an editor at Pantheon Books.
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Reader Comments from The Fray:


Indian gaming may seem like a form of reparations in our tort-minded culture, but this is a false analogy. Indians are permitted to operate casinos because they have sovereignty over their reservations by treaties signed in the preceding centuries. When the federal courts ruled that states could not bar tribes from running casinos, states negotiated agreements with them regulating their operation (restricting alcohol, for example). Indian gaming, fishing rights, and sales tax exemptions are not gifts of guilty white liberals. They are an acknowledgement of legal obligations from another era.

--Andrew W.Cohen

(To reply, click here.)


I believe the best reparations would be putting forth the effort to treat Black Americans and Indians with the respect and equality human beings deserve. What good would money and property do, when white folks can still treat Black Americans and Indians as less than human, therefore less than equal? What would I, a Black American, rather have: 40 acres and a mule, or to be treated and given as much respect and equality is my white brother and sisters? Forget the money and the property, give me my equality and my respect. That is the best reparation any oppressed people can ask for.

--philiagoddess

(To reply, click here.)


The purpose of reparations is justice. The purpose of group reparations (vs. individual) is approximate justice. So it is necessary to decide how approximate we wish our justice to be. I believe that reparations for the dead (eg slaves) paid to their remote descendants is too crude. However, after slavery there was still a long-term injustice towards blacks: Jim Crow. This depressed the wages of Afro-Americans. Some of these victims are still alive. Since they would be mostly retired now, I suggest compensation through the Social Security system. This could be done in many ways, for example by adjusting the probability distribution of wages of blacks to mirror that of whites (on a year-by-year basis, up to some cutoff date), and then using that adjustment to adjust individual wage histories, and so finally increase Social Security payments.

--Bob Cox

(To reply, click here.)


We do owe the black people. The whole country does, because we took their share of work for building this country up, for free, and on top we dragged them through the hell of slavery, and broken families, and constant humiliation. And even now 140 years after the Civil War, the prejudice continues. If we inherited all the good stuff from our predecessors in this country, we also inherited their debts. And the debt to the black people still needs to be paid.

--Amyntas

(To reply, click here.)


Several questions:
1)If we're starting with home-grown folks, should we be planning to collect reparations from black slave owners' descendants?
2) Would you prefer African-Americans have quasi-sovereign nations to live on like Native Americans tribes, and thus be immune (to a large extent) from the state and federal government?
3) Did Bill Clinton oppose the war before or after he signed up for ROTC, and then dropped out once he realized he might get drafted?
4) Was Gore struggling along as a pauper while Bush was living high with his family's money?

--MRB

(To reply, click here.)


Notes from the Fray Editor: Debra Dickerson does a splendid job of explaining The Fray. (In fact, our job--thanks Debra.) This is the post she mentions about the National Review. Views on reparations can be found all over The Fray, and we picked out some of what we hope she will think the more intelligent and thoughtful ones, above. And WillV liked Ms Dickerson's description of the shooting--Tuesday-- so much he thought she should be be hired by Slate to write a cops and crime column.






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