HOME / the breakfast table: An e-mail conversation about the news of the day.

Joel Achenbach and Marjorie Williams

As Himmler Said to Goebbels ...

Posted Wednesday, April 12, 2000, at 11:58 AM ET

Dear Joel,

About Elián: Don't you hate grown-ups who pretend, when it's convenient for them, that children's wishes are all-important? Giving a child too much power is one of the worst things you can do to him/her, and it's doubly destructive when you're manipulating the child at the same time. Picture Elián's Miami relatives three years down the road, in the unlikely event they win custody of him: No you can't go to the park today, Goddammit. Because I said so!

But my favorite story today is historian Deborah E. Lipstadt's total victory, in a British court, over Hitler apologist David Irving. Although she is American, Irving, who is a Brit, sued her there because England's libel laws are so much more favorable to the plaintiff than ours. He claimed that she erred in calling him a "Holocaust denier," which is what he plainly is; the judge wasn't buying it. This is a real victory for plain truth.

Earlier in Irving's career, his archival research in Germany earned him some genuine regard as a military historian. My father was his editor at the Viking Press (I teased him to his dying day about having written, in the flap copy for Hitler's War, that it would "stand athwart the annals" of somethingorother), and always claimed that if you told David Irving that you had just been shot and were bleeding to death, he would reply, "Hmmm, yes, well, as I was saying, Himmler then said to Goebbels ..." Every year, when my parents went to London, they had to endure the dread ritual of Dinner at the Irvings: "We are girding loins for dinner with David Irving," my father wrote home in November '76. "Do hope he doesn't bring out X-rays of Hitler's skull until dessert." It was always hot in the Irvings' flat, where they were served (this is my mother now) "the same horrible thing--German champagne well-laced with Campari." And while Irving was bending my father's ear, Mrs. Irving would lead my mother to the kitchen for unsought confidences about the Irving connubial life. "David is as strange as ever," my mother wrote. "All he is really interested in is his Book(s), so that he looks at Alan as a kind of extension of his Hitler book, and just puts him under glass and gazes at him fondly. I do believe Alan could spit in his face and he would just say, 'Oh, yes, jolly good,' and go on gazing."

Even then, when Irving was regarded as respectable and had not yet flatly denied the reality of the Final Solution, my father always sounded a little defensive about publishing him. Ron Rosenbaum has a great op-ed in today's Wall Street Journal about the fallacy of fellow historians who praise Irving's fact-gathering while disowning his conclusions. Research and conclusion are ultimately inseparable, Rosenbaum argues, "Can one praise a fact gatherer who somehow has failed to find the facts of mass murder behind Hitler's pattern of denial?"

On fluoridation: I want you to you know that my home is graced with a fabulous plaque from the American Dental Association, awarded some time ago to my husband, a k a Mr. Chatterbox, for writing a very similar story on fluoride. Are all the old fears of right-wing nuts now the fears of left-wing nuts and vice versa? (The right now hates government, whereas the left now hates one-world government.) Once the extremes have all cycled through every conceivable form of paranoia, can we just get on with life?

Maybe you'll find out at the anti-WTO rally. I'm anxious to hear your report. But if you're really planning to go to get your car inspected, I'm not holding my breath. Didn't you read the "Metro" section story about how the lines are four blocks long?

Regretfully,
Marjorie

As Himmler Said to Goebbels ...

Posted Wednesday, April 12, 2000, at 11:58 AM ET
Print This ArticlePRINTEmail to a FriendE-MAILShare This ArticleRECOMMEND...Get Slate RSS FeedsRSS
Joel Achenbach is a reporter for the Washington Post, where he also writes "Rough Draft," a thrice-weekly online column. Click here to buy his recent book on extraterrestrial life, Captured by Aliens. Marjorie Williams writes a weekly opinion column for the Washington Post Op-Ed page and is a contributing writer at Talk magazine.
COMMENTS

Reader Response from The Fray--to be read after the final entry:


Let me get this straight: they give out Pulitzer's for criticism [Monday]? Please--my heart is pounding, my blood pressure is rocketing, my hands now shake, please dear, please, please tell me, where do I sign up?

--Old Timer [who is well-known in The Fray for his expertise in this area.]

(To reply, click
here.)


Re: Elian Gonzales. I believe that immigration laws should be as open and welcoming as possible. But at the same time we need to look at the long-term situation of the country the people are fleeing. There is not always a whole lot we can do, and we also run the risk of becoming control freak America with it's thumb in every pie--oh, hang on, we already are that. Well, anyway, my point is that instead of trying to pass a bill to make Elian a citizen, why don't we lift the embargo and make life a little better for all Cubans?

--Anne

(To reply, click
here.)


"That's exactly what Castro wants us to do", I believe, is the stock response to either ending or continuing the embargo.

--Steve Dowling

(To reply, click
here.)

[This response almost silenced David Edelstein, but not quite:]
The embargo is a 40-year hissy fit, and it's time to give it a rest. Say what you will against Castro (I can say plenty), he'd have been long gone if the embargo had been lifted 25 years ago and Disney and all the other U.S. corporations had moved in with their sundry inducements to free (sic) enterprise.

--David Edelstein

(To reply, click
here.)


The question of why people hate Janet Reno [Thursday] is a bit intricate and since I do hate her, I'd like to take a stab at it--the question, not her (I don't hate anybody that much). Reno reminds me of the Greek tragedy Antigone which shows us that strict enforcement of the law, by the book, isn't always the best thing. The Waco invasion wasn't the best thing, for example. I believe the law justified her actions, that the operation was by the book. But that doesn't mean it was a good thing. With Elian, there's that potential again that Reno will embark on the legal course, but that it won't be the morally right course.

Reno does not respect people who defy her. She assumes they are wrong and she acts on that and she has a tremendous amount of power to enforce her interpretation of law. This is the crux of my anti-Renoism: She doesn't talk to people, she barks orders at them. When people ignore the lectures they get punished. Hey, that's her job. But it'd be nice to have a more philosophical sort wielding all that power--someone with a better sense of proportion who realizes that every act of defiance is unique and deserves unique treatment.

--Michael Maiello

(To reply, click
here.)


Don Porges writes in The Fray about Thursday's entry:

"Random number generator" isn't academic-speak; it's perfectly standard math-speak, and if you're using dice to demonstrate probabilities, then they are being used as random number generators.

The definition and connotations of "dice" are much more precise in naming the objects in question. My old TI-99 had a "random number generator" command in its BASIC programming. Since it was just code, it resembled nothing that would help baby get a new pair of shoes. Besides "dice" fits into a headline nicely.

--
Charles

(To reply, click
here.)


[No proposals this week. But that doesn't mean the Breakfast Table went unappreciated:]

These guys were the best. And that's granting that there were some close competitors. But Joel and Marjorie are the BT gold standard. The King and Queen are dead! Bring on next week's random number generators!

--Mike

(To reply, click
here.)

(4/14)

What did you think of this article?
Join The Fray: Our Reader Discussion Forum
POST A MESSAGE | READ MESSAGES
TODAY'S PICTURES
TODAY'S CARTOONS
TODAY'S DOONESBURY
TODAY'S VIDEO
Very superstitious.90/091113_TP.jpg
Cartoonists' take on unemployment.50/091113_TC.jpg
Follow the leaper.1/122939/2183724/DoonesburyPlaceholder.jpg