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Do you disagree with this statement?
by GhassanG
+2 Reply

"He chooses martyrdom to glorify his hatred similar to a suicide bomber."

Consider tactical and strategic similarities between a 'lone wolf' neo-Nazi and a suicide bomber. What are the similarities, and should someone be given the opportunity to make such a sweeping statement publicly without qualifications?

Consider if such sweeping statements are not qualified, wouldn't statements such as these then be accepted?

Lastly, if Savage's statement is accepted widely, wouldn't it give some 'lone wolf' some validation to act against the US President? Would you then accept the comparison between such a 'lone wolf' and a suicide bomber?

Re:U decide--lawyer rhetoric on public forum Accountable?
by uncommOner

a comparative analogy using a National Lawyers Guild Lawyer Rally and a supposed lone wolf zionist who worked for the Henry Street Settlement in NYC who combined turned off the lights at the Buffalo lights Expo leaving VP Rosenvelt to take the Reins to creat childrens societies and League of nations, UN (via his niece Eleanor and nephew Theodore) and the American Humane Association of merged none govt ogrs and pvt bankers-law Partners of women, children and animals of Orphan Train pvt foster Care adoption secrets !

hmm

  • Leon Czolgosz (1) In her autobiography, Living My Life, Emma Goldman described her two meetings with Leon Czolgosz who at the time was using the name Nieman. ...
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  • LEON CZOLGOSZ Leon Czolgosz was born in Detroit, Michigan from Polish immigrants. ... traveled to Cleveland to witness one of his most beloved speakers, Emma Goldman. ...
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  • Leon Czolgosz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Czolgosz is referred to by name by Emma Goldman in E. L. Doctorow's novel, ... Leon Czolgosz and the Trial - "Lights out in the City of Light" Anarchy and ...
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  • Emma Goldman Online Exhibition: Life and Conflict in the New World On September 6, 1901, Leon Czolgosz assassinated President McKinley. Although Emma Goldman did not know Czolgosz, police and the press blamed her for the ...
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  • Emma Goldman: A Documentary History of the American Years - Made ... - Google Books Result by Emma Goldman, Candace Falk, Barry Pateman - 2008 - Social Science - 680 pages
    Czolgosz Declares Emma Goldman's Words Drove Him to Murder. ... the Daily News from Buffalo says: The statement of Leon Czolgosz,1 made to the police, ...
    books.google.com/books?isbn=02­52075412... -
  • The Infidels - Emma Goldman Emma Goldman and Leon Czolgosz appear in Rhys Bowen's "Death of Riley". While they are acknowledged to be true historical characters, the rest of the book ...
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  • Leon Czolgosz Leon Czolgosz As a young man, Leon Czolgosz (1873-1901) worked in a wire mill in ... He made trips to hear the anarchist leader Emma Goldman speak, ...
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  • The Only Difference
    by Urquhart

    Between von Brunn and a suicide bomber is that he only managed to hit one guy, and foozled the whole "suicide" part. Although I would say that an Islamist suicide bomber has a bit more of a movement behind him, and is recruited. Whereas von Brunn was working alone.

    "Should someone be given the opportunity to make such a sweeping statement without qualifications?" Um, yes. What qualifications would be needed? Both are insane, evil people. Making fine-line distinctions hardly seems necessary. I don't feel sorry that the feelings of suicide bombers would be hurt by the comparison.

    I also don't see why, if Savage has made a reasonable and largely correct statement here, we must therefore accept all of Savage's other statements.

    Hey a-z, I could tell unc was a loon from the first post I
    by PumpkinSeed
    ran across. With most posters it does not take too long.
    Please excuse my inefficiency.
    by GhassanG

    Breaking down your response into individual segments:

    Are you stating that an Iraqi suicide bomber's attack on either the Shia' or the Sunni communities in Iraq is motivated by hatred towards blacks and Jews? While they might be insane and evil people, what tactical and strategic similarities do you find between them and Brunn? Where do you draw the line in making that comparison? i.e. is every insane and evil-doer akin to a neo-Nazi and suicide bomber? If the distinction between the two is fine, by your analysis, then what distinction is there between a Palestinian suicide bomber and an Israeli jet bomber?

    Intent
    by Urquhart

    The intent of von Brunn was to kill Jews, much like the intent of a Palestinian suicide bomber. To go into a place with a large concentration of Jews and kill as many as possible. The same is true of an Iraqi suicide bomber (against Sunni or Shia), though they seem to have lost their appetite for that.

    The intent of the pilot is not to kill as many people as possible. In fact, he would like to avoid doing so. The intent is to hit a target. Knowing that this will likely result in deaths. But maximizing deaths is not the object.

    The most cheering event, of course, is when a suicide bomber manages to detonate himself without hurting anyone else. Every time this occurs, an angel gets its wings.

    Re: Worthy reply? dissing your perceived PTSD collectors?
    by uncommOner

    Now Emma Goldman and leon were called many things-- but you infer they are loons as well as members of your Natle Lawyers Guild club that Put back to Gold Standard mckinley in his Expo of Lights grave and his VP Rosenvelt aka Roosevelt as amended--on his Steed to walk softly and carry a big AHA & SPCC merged pvt BBH bankers colors of their characters sub prme 2009 roles for their cousin Rabbi Hebrew Funnye Robinson of the UCC INC triage!

    "Any who are ignorant to history are dooming us to repeat it"

    hmm

  • Leon Czolgosz Trial: 1901 - Czolgosz's Trial Is Swift Crime Charged: Assassinating President William McKinley. Chief Defense Lawyers: Loran L. Lewis and Robert C. Titus ... Sentence: Death by electrocution. SIGNIFICANCE: Leon Czolgosz, an avowed anarchist, was tried and ... the jury may well have convicted Czolgosz for his extremely unpopular political beliefs. ...
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  • "Lights out in the City of Light" Anarchy and Assassination at the ... Jun 11, 2004 ... Interestingly, despite the notoriety of this case—the convicted assassinated the President of the United ..... Article--"Penalty of Death Passed Upon leon F. Czolgosz. ... McKinley Assassin Trial Re-Creation : The Trial of Leon Czolgosz, Assassin of President McKinley, on September 22, 2001. ...
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  • McKinley Assassination Ink: A Documentary History of William ... The autopsy showed that death was due to gangrene of the tissues in the path of the .... He was promptly placed upon trial, convicted, sentenced, and executed, ... Leon Czolgosz, the murderer of President McKinley, was born in this ...
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  • Buffalo Spree Magazine - Archive Their lawyer's (Leslie Foschio) argument was that school segregation in Buffalo had .... Regarding Leon Czolgosz, the convicted assassin of President William ... After McKinley's death on September 14, Czolgosz was stealthily moved from ...
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  • sparkyvictims His death on Aug. 6, 1890 in Auburn Prison was witnessed by two dozen people but thousands ... Leon Czolgosz was executed in Auburn Prison on Oct. 29, 1901, just six weeks after he assassinated President William McKinley in Buffalo. ... convicted and executed of murdering two men during the 1920 robbery of a South ...
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  • Leon Czolgosz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia He was convicted and sentenced to death on September 23, in a brief trial ... an unfaithful man named Mr. Czolgosz to fall in love with President McKinley. ...
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  • Leon Czolgosz - Metapedia Oct 25, 2008 ... The President thrust out his hand; Czolgosz slapped it aside and shot McKinley twice at ... On September 13, the day before McKinley succumbed to his wounds, ... He was convicted and sentenced to death on September 23, ...
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  • Re: Do you disagree with this statement?
    by Gatewood
    Currently our liberals – from their leadership to BOTF line grunts – are struggling mightily to categorize all acts of murder and mayhem as identical in value and intent. They have their reasons for this and while some of them are sincere some of them are being blatantly and self-servingly political in nature. For one thing they desperately want to get away from the concept of a War on Terror for both ideological and political reasons.

    If you consider in the sense of the term in which it has been used for the previous eight years a terrorist is someone following orders – like a soldier – then, no, a lone wolf neo-Nazi is not a terrorist. He is an insane maniac, which most terrorists are not. Most terrorists are, after all, following orders to meet what amounts to military objectives. Those orders are given by the representative of a real organization with active and ‘more or less’ successful long term plans of attack. Terror is as much of a tool of war to them as cluster bombs and aircraft carriers are to the United States and the terrorists themselves are merely the weaponry utilized.

    Please note that the concept of a suicide bomber is meaningless unless one know why he or she became a bomb blast. If the term suicide bomber is meant to be synonymous with terrorist then, again, the existing definition set comes into play. A suicide bomber is a weapon of war directed by an organization, NOT a lone wolf maniac.

    Michael Savage [a rightwinger] has jumped on the bandwagon of hysteria that the Holocaust Museum officials also boarded. In the Middle East? Yes, to be Jewish is a problematical existence. In the United States? No. On the face of it, it remains far, far, more dangerous to work at a post office than at a Holocaust Museum. Are we going to begin calling disgruntled post office employees launching a shooting spree terrorists?

    Any maniac at any time can make an attempt on the president’s life – and probably get stopped cold before he even gets close. A terrorist action against the president, however, is something else entirely. A terrorist is a terrorist and an insane maniac is an insane maniac and it is a bit like comparing apples to oranges to maintain otherwise.

    Yes I disagree with that statement.
    by watt4bob

    It's a diliberate mistatement concerning the motivation of the suicide bomber.

    It's intended to construct a false equivalance between crazed psychotic racists and indiginous freedom fighters where ever they may be.

    It's evidence of the ongoing degradation of our access to information due to assymetrical access to the press.

    It's something that
    by Gatewood

    I encountered about twelve years ago when helping a student put together a research paper on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Almost anything that was substantive in nature was either produced by the Israelis or by the lock-step agreement American press. It was quite difficult to find authoritative and documented accounts from the other perspective.

    I suspect that if I were to help put together another paper on the subject that I would still find it just about as difficult today. If the material is not available then a researcher really has to struggle to be fair and accurate where both sides are concerned.

    It's a free country, I guess
    by Isonomist

    I don't agree that the Nazi shooter was acting in a way similar to a suicide bomber, but I can see why the holocaust survivor saw parallels (both intend to make a political statement with violence against innocent people in a public place, both redefine the innocent as guilty to justify their act, both believe they are doing what is right/what God wants, both see themselves as members of an aggrieved people and would like to force a change on those they see as their oppressors by violent means). To me the difference is that the shooter had no intention of sacrificing himself.

    I dont' at all think there's a parallel between what a private citizen says when interviewed and what a radio commentator says. Clearly the commentator has a greater responsibility and impact with his words. I really don't think Savage is doing anything but marginalizing himself by associating Obama with a right wing neo Nazi. Unfortunately we live in a country where it's not unlikely that a "lone wolf" of any species is more or less happy to use almost any justification to commit a crime against an acting US president. Do we blame left wing commentators for Squeaky Frome?

    Re: Concur!
    by uncommOner

    Johnny Appleseed planted Apple tree seeds followed by rats--not orang-atan seeds

    (just humor)

    Clearly spoken simplicities--

    my own comparison analogy (requring reading to rally feminist attorney Emma Goldman-& henry Street Settlement worker Leon and Mckinley Deathe at the Expo(giving TR the Humane Society bathory Reins) rang no bells---

    Hence for whom did the bell toll yet did not toll

    hmm

    That's a weak distinction.
    by PumpkinSeed

    The terrorist could equally claim his target is the cafe. That it may be full of coffee drinkers is merely serendipitous.

    The Israeli retaliation in Gaza for the rocket attacks was to kill a large number of Palestinians, with the message being, "Just how high a price are you willing to pay to continue these attacks?" For the moment it appears to have been heard.

    I try to get down to funamentals
    by Gatewood

    on these questions and frequently do so by resorting to useful definitions. People need a firm platform from which to launch their assertions. Where you and I differ as creative posters is that I don't just drop the other shoe, I try to drop the entire shoe warehouse on the subject. You, however, have a tendency to leave far too much up to your readers. You make them fill in too many of the blanks on their own and so they either tend to misunderstand your points or they arrive at entirely faulty conclusions.

    I am not criticizing you in this. We all think differently and must follow our own paths as posters, and I frequently admire what you post. I just don't like to take chances. If I am going to be condemned by the majority of BOTF posters then I want them to really KNOW what they are condemning me for -- right or wrong.

    Re: Do you disagree with this statement?
    by HeWhoMustDie
    Wait a sec - I know there was a check on this post - I saw it not two seconds ago.
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