So … what exactly is going on with Empire? This week’s episode was a mess, with an all-too-rushed kidnapping plotline, awkward dialogue, and some truly bizarre actions displayed on behalf of every character on screen. Has the show lost its way? On this week’s Slate Plus–exclusive TV Club podcast, Aisha Harris and Willa Paskin parse through all the clumsiness that was “A High Hope for a Low Heaven.”

And read more on what made this episode the worst so far in Empire history.

Listen to more episodes of our podcast on Empire.