Scalia and Breyer sell very different constitutional worldviews.

Scalia and Breyer sell very different constitutional worldviews.

The law, lawyers, and the court.
Dec. 6 2006 4:31 PM

Justice Grover Versus Justice Oscar

Scalia and Breyer sell very different constitutional worldviews.

Breyer-Scalia debate. Click image to expand.
The Breyer-Scalia debate

If judicial confirmation hearings in the Senate were one-tenth as illuminating as last night's debate between Supreme Court Justices Antonin Scalia and Stephen Breyer at the Capitol Hilton, there would be a booming market for Supreme Court action figurines. Co-sponsored by the American Constitution Society and the Federalist Society (the Birkenstocks and bow ties of the legal universe), the debate has Breyer and Scalia whacking their way through the possibility of "justice," the limitations of constitutional history, and, throughout the evening—the possibility of persuasion.

Dahlia Lithwick Dahlia Lithwick

Dahlia Lithwick writes about the courts and the law for Slate

The justices agree more than they differ, and they agree about nothing so much as the extent to which they agree. They agree in the majority of the cases they decide, and they agree that "judicial activist" is a stupid label. They agree that religion cases are hard and that judicial minimalism is overrated. Still, when you're sitting close enough to see that Supreme Court justices actually wear socks, their differences are stark. From the moment he takes the stage, Justice Breyer looks outward. He shifts in his seat constantly to catch the eye of the moderator, ABC's Jan Crawford Greenburg, and then to make eye contact with individual audience members. When Scalia speaks, Breyer nods and bobs. Justice Scalia turns inward, folding up his arms and gazing raptly into the middle distance. As Breyer speaks, Scalia first smirks, then giggles, then sort of erupts with a rebuttal, usually aimed right at the tips of his shoes. Where Breyer is ever striving to connect to the world, Scalia is happiest in his head. Throughout the debate, Breyer continues to measure, aloud, whether he and Scalia are "making progress." Scalia laughs that Breyer's hopes for the evening are too high.


Scalia is charming and—as ever—riotously funny. For each time Breyer says his own constitutional approach is "complicated" or "hard," Scalia retorts that his is "easy as pie" and a "piece of cake." And if this debate mirrors a marketplace of ideas, Breyer will make the sale through the earnest personal connection of a Wal-Mart greeter, while Scalia opts for the aloof certainty of the Tiffany's salesman: "Sure, you can buy some other, cheaper constitutional theory, but really. Ew."

Each of the justices explains how he approaches a case: Breyer has six interpretive tools—text, history, tradition, precedent, the purpose of a statute, and the consequences. In his view, it's a mistake to ignore the last two. Scalia replies that to look at either the purpose or the consequence of a statute is to invite subjectivity and beg the question.

Scalia bristles when Crawford Greenburg quotes back a line about the "living Constitution" being "idiotic." "You are misquoting me," he says. "I was describing the argument in favor of the living Constitution—that it's a living organism that must grow or become brittle and snap." And he can't resist adding, "That is idiotic." He observes that there is a difference between applying the Constitution to a changing world—to television and the Internet, say—and to "morphing" old ideas to mean precisely their opposite. How could a Constitution that clearly allowed for the death penalty now explicitly prohibit it? "That's the living Constitution I am talking about, and it's the one I wish would die."

Breyer points out that the constitutional language of "cruel and unusual" is not clear, before chuckling, "I was making a lot more progress before." Breyer describes the job of justices as patrolling the boundaries—making certain the legislature doesn't "go too far" at the margins. The words of the Constitution "don't explain themselves," he says. Scalia retorts that the Bill of Rights itself sets out the limitations on legislatures and that a majority set out these limitations when it ratified the Constitution. Those are the real boundaries, not the boundaries invented by each new generation of jurists.

Breyer says that if the only thing that matters is historical truths from the time of the Constitution, "we should have nine historians on the court." Scalia says, "It's not my burden to prove originalism is perfect. It's just my burden to prove it's better than anything else." He adds that a court of nine historians sounds better than a court of nine ethicists.

The justices enter into a side skirmish over the high court's religion jurisprudence—a skirmish that launches Scalia into a delicious impression of the Frenchman who described to him the difference between France and America: "Justice Scalia," he minces, "France is a country with 300 cheeses and two religions. The United States is a country with two cheeses and 300 religions."

Breyer cracks up: "But why does the Frenchman have an Italian accent?"

Both justices agree the words activist judge are basically useless. "An insult," says Breyer. A "conclusory label," says Scalia. Asked if he ever calls Breyer an activist, Scalia quips: "I would never call him that to his face."

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