Mark Zandi has never had any formal debate training. But the chief economist of Moody’s Analytics is confident that he’ll win the Oct 25. Slate/ Intelligence Squared U.S. debate with his formidable informal arguing skills. “I have four siblings, so my whole life was a debate,” laughs Zandi, who will argue for the merits of President Obama’s American Jobs Act and the motion, “Congress should pass Obama’s jobs plan—piece by piece.” Zandi’s job, too, required an outspoken response to the Jobs Act, the president’s recent legislative proposal aimed at creating jobs and reviving the economy. In Zandi’s analysis of the bill, he warns that there’s a 40 percent chance of a double-dip recession in the next six to 12 months if Congress doesn’t pass certain components of the Jobs Act. Last week, I spoke with Zandi about the most critical parts of the president’s legislation, a potential pitfall of the bill, and the fourth-grade project that determined his career path. Excerpts from the interview are printed below.
Slate: Which aspects of the American Jobs Act must pass in order to significantly drop the probability that we’ll enter into a double-dip recession in the next year?
Mark Zandi: The extension and expansion of the payroll tax holidays for workers would be number one on my list and key to avoiding recession.
Slate: How likely is it that the Republicans will pass those measures?
MZ: I’m counting on it. If I thought they wouldn’t, then I would say that I think we’re rolling into a recession. I expect them to do it.
Slate: Some in the Obama administration say that the legislators fighting the Jobs Act are only doing it to weaken the president. They claim this fight is about politics and not about the bill’s merits. Is that an accurate portrayal?
MZ: I’m sure there are all kinds of motivations. But I’m more inclined to give the opponents of this legislation the benefit of the doubt. I can see a different perspective. I don’t agree with it and I think it’s wrong. I think it would be a greater error not to extend and expand the tax holiday for employees. But I’m not going to ascribe darker motivations to opposing it. There is no slam-dunk policy step here. There’s no silver bullet. I can see the perspective that people feel that other similar efforts to this did not live up to their expectations. From my perspective I think the policies worked well, but I can see the other argument.
Slate: In your analysis of the Jobs Act, you pointed to a potential pitfall of the legislation: “The plan also results in weaker growth in 2013, as most of the tax cuts and spending increases are temporary and fade during the year. Presumably the economy will be strong enough to handle it by then, but that is far from certain.” Is there a way to alter or change the plan so that growth doesn’t wane so quickly?
MZ: What that means is we need policymakers to do more. They can’t just pass parts of this and stop. They do need to be thinking about what policies will help the economy [in the] longer-run, and the president’s doing that, as are the Republican proposals. In fact, most if not all of the Republican proposals are good ones, but they’re focused on the longer-run. They’re not focused on “how do I avoid a recession in the next few months?” So I think we need to pursue other policies. That [includes] everything [from] ensuring that our long-term fiscal situation is in order, to tax reform, to the other proposals about regulatory reform and trade policy. It’s very important for policymakers to pass this near-term help for the economy and make sure we don’t go back into a recession. If we do, then all other problems will become much more difficult. But [it’s] also [important] to focus on these longer-term policy issues so we can help the economy in 2013, 2014, or 2015.
Slate: A lot of folks are focused on what will happen to the unemployment rate and the economy between now and November 2012. How much will things change if Congress passes the minimum of the act to avoid recession?
MZ: I don’t think it will result in a low unemployment rate by the election if [the minimum is] all that they do. To get the unemployment [rate] moving south quickly, they’ll have to pass more of what the president has proposed. There are some things that have some bipartisan support that I think are less likely, but it is possible they’ll get through. Like the payroll tax holiday for employers, or some additional money for the unemployment insurance program with some reforms the president has proposed. Those things would also add juice to the economy next year and increase the odds that unemployment will be moving definitively lower by Election Day. But at this point, I give less-than-even odds that this gets through the political process.
Slate: What are some of the reforms the president has proposed to the unemployment insurance program?