A Conversation With Matthew Weiner
The Mad Men creator on the season finale, Joan's big decision, and how Pete Campbell takes a punch.
Photograph by Imeh Akpanudosen/Getty Images
I talked with Matthew Weiner today about the surprising, grim, and often very funny season of Mad Men that ended last night. I adopted the same strategy I used when I spoke to him before the season began—that is, I avoided questions about the future, knowing that the famously tight-lipped showrunner wasn’t likely to tell me much about Peggy’s cigarette work—or the results of Roger’s second LSD trip. Instead, I asked Weiner to describe what was going through the minds of Don, Peggy, and Joan when they made their life-changing decisions this season. And of course I also asked him what was going through that conductor’s mind when he socked it to Pete Campbell.
Slate: One of my colleagues in Slate’s TV Club observed a few weeks ago that this season has seemed to suggest there’s a trade-off between happiness and success. Don’s happiness at home coincides with a period of complacency at work. In the world of Mad Men, do you need to be unhappy to succeed?
Matt Weiner: Freud defined happiness as the ability to work and to love. And of course success in your relationship is a kind of success also. Don is someone who we know always wants to work when things are bad. It’s always there for him. He prefers it to everything. But concentrating on this other aspect was definitely to the detriment of his ambition.
Slate: When do you think Don got his ambition back?
Weiner: I think he’s living a fantasy of having his work life and love life overlap in a way that he never expected; Megan’s this person for him to grab whenever there’s a dull moment at work. And when she rejects that it’s very hard for him to take. She rejects him in some way—she doesn’t like orange sherbet. In Episode 9, he tries to get back to work and we see that there are new horses that run faster than him and that’s hard for him and he kind of rigs it. And then in Episode 10, he comes home and Megan throws that plate at the wall and says, “You used to love your work.” He kind of gets the fire lit under him, and he goes back and pitches the hell out of Jaguar. But the victory is tainted. And I think he realizes that he’s ambitious to the point that accomplishment is never going to be enough.
Slate: That’s a point he makes during his Dow pitch, right? It almost seems like he’s saying there’s emptiness to success—that an ambitious person can never truly be satisfied.
Weiner: Right, happiness is the moment before you need more happiness. That is not a healthy way to think. I know he sold the hell out of it and the audience was distracted by Jon Hamm’s incredible delivery and the great directing in that episode. But the words he’s saying are strange.
Slate: Speaking of the sacrifices one makes in the name of ambition, perhaps the most controversial moment this season was Joan’s decision to accept Jaguar’s indecent proposal. Why did she make the choice she did?
Weiner: I have been a little bit surprised by people’s questioning whether this was within character for her. I think she’s shown an extremely pragmatic side. Both in the negative and the positive. Living with the man who raped her because he’s a doctor and that was her dream. Living with his military service. Living with the fact that she’s not financially taken care of. All these fantasies that she had are not there and she’s pragmatically adapting to all of that. She’s a person who solves problems in an unconventional way.
My anecdotal research on human behavior in this world comes from people coming up to me and telling me stories. The amount of stories I heard of this particular dynamic are in the triple digits. The only thing that’s false about it is no one got a partnership out of it. They got a car or a fur or an apartment. It’s not to be taken lightly, but this is a gigantic step for her in securing her future. I don’t think it’s outside the possibility that she’s slept with a client before for nothing. When Joey was fired, she said to Peggy, “You didn’t have to fire him.” She said, “I would have taken Mr. Sugarberry to dinner and I could have gotten Joey off the account in a second.“